MZ: An Ex-Founding DBC Core Member
I’ve thought long and hard about this. I have encouraged DBC twice to become more transparent. I’ve asked two DBC leaders to vp with me, so we can discuss this further, but they both weren’t ‘available’. In e-mails, I asked them why they don’t want to acknowledge to the Deaf Community that they practice Deafhood heavily but received no response. Transparency and integrity are essential as these will benefit the organization and also the Deaf Community.
Since the top DBC leader, also the Deafhood leader, Ella Mae Lentz had accused me of assumption and confusion in the comment section of a vlog, I have no choice but to come forward. These are the facts.
I was one of the founding core members of DBC. When it started, we had a very simple mission: baby signs for deaf babies. Later it was expanded to include deaf babies and deaf children by several members. Two Deafhood leaders began to push Deafhood on us. The majority wasn’t comfortable with that as they only wanted to focus on Bilingualism and nothing further. However, these leaders persisted, ignoring the moderates’ objections. As Anne Marie Baer said, there was no voting or due process, including an election of DBC leaders, though we wanted to set up a formal system, etc. Finally two moderates, including me, resigned and four other moderates were pushed out summarily without notice afterwards. Then I found out two other leaders, including a strong Deafhood proponent, were appointed one month prior to my resignation and none of us knew about this new development. We went ahead and set up our organization which addresses to deaf bilingualism only. Some wanted to disclose to the public, but another former member and I asked them not to mention anything. We still want to see DBC succeed. Looking back, I wonder if that was a mistake keeping quiet as afterwards Dr Hocokan volunteered his hard labor for four months, believing in bilingualism only to find out the Deafhood agenda has been infiltrated into the organization. What Dr Hocokan had described so far, run parallel to what we experienced. Very recently, Dianrez and Anne Marie acknowledged being booted out without any notice.
For me, as long as Deafhood is what Deaf people want in DBC, that’s fine with me. However, I’ll be honest and say that some moderates don’t feel good to see the DBC hijacked to serve two purposes instead of the original one, especially when they toiled hard to build the foundation and provide research information. They feel that if parents see Deafhood, they will not get the message about the value of ASL with Deaf children. It happens that I agree with them. But two Deafhood leaders disagree and they are certainly entitled to their opinions.
Their definition of Deafhood is somewhat different than mine as I have come to terms with my own deafhood many years ago. All deaf people, whether they are ASL users, C.I. users, deaf oralists, hard of hearing, and cued speech users, etc are embraced. Whether the person views deafness as a medical pathology or a deafhood is irrelevant to me as I look at the whole person. The Deafhood concepts are fascinating - the audism, the audism behind the cochlear implants and oralism, and its impact on Deaf education and Deaf Community. All of these ideas are profound and thought-provoking. In my opinion, the labeling of deaf groups is divisive and not encouraged. Personal attacks on deaf people by another deaf group due to cultural intolerance on either side are not condoned, either.
The longer the DBC leaders continued without disclosing their second agenda to the Deaf Community, the more puzzled I became. At first I thought it was due to fear of rejection, but it doesn’t make sense because three DBC leaders are openly identified as Deafhood leaders. The Deafhood themes became more obvious in the blogs and vlogs over the period of time, including the DBC convention. Hence my encouragement for them to become more transparent. The importance of one being true to oneself and others is paramount, especially in the Deaf community where many feel too inhibited in expressing their real opinions openly.
I also saw how inspired and empowered Deaf people were when they attended the DBC Conference. In my personal belief, some Deaf people need empowerment and feel good about their deafness, both long overdue. As you know, I am all for Deaf activism and empowerment as long as mutual respect and tolerance for the diversity of D/deaf people are practiced. This includes their rights to their beliefs, whether we agree with them or not.
At the conference, the majority of time was spent on Deaf Bilingualism, with excellent lecturers versed in this field. However, Deafhood, audism, oralism, cochlear implants, and sharing of negative experiences were also covered. Many Deaf people resonated with the conference, so it was a very successful conference for Deaf participants. The targeted audience was, in my honest opinion, the Deaf Community, not the hearing parents of deaf babies and toddlers. As long as Deaf people are aware of that, this isn’t a problem.
Yet one thing remains unclear to me. The DBC carrying two different agendas, Deaf Bilingualism and Deafhood, is increasingly becoming more apparent. Why do the leaders feel reluctant to be more transparent with its members and the Deaf Community? Instead of being willing to discuss this with the concerned members of the Deaf Community, they attacked those who gave them constructive feedback, using intimidation tactics and utilizing some of theirs followers to speak up for them. Repeatedly I get the feeling none of Deaf people can give honest and constructive feedback at all without being accused of trying to destroy DBC or practicing crab theory. In my blog, I tend to cover many topics, with various point of views, popular or unpopular. Some readers disagree with me, but they are entitled to their opinions. However, this also leads to some bashing on me in my own blog, but I don’t accuse them of practicing crab theory since it comes with the territory. The Deaf leaders should be able to handle constructive feedback professionally without restoring into negative and destructive attacks to denigrate concerned Deaf people.. This particular dynamic of intimidating people isn’t healthy for the Deaf Community. Aidan Mack is correct. Healthy dialogue is a must for the Deaf Community.
So this brings back the question: Why are DBC leaders not being forthcoming with their Deafhood agenda?
A note: I would respectfully ask for no bashing. I hope DBC will continue to be successful. All I am asking is the organization to show transparency, integrity, and tolerance for Deaf members.
Sites from other ex-core DBC members:
Dr. Hokocan’s DBC Facts: http://dbcfacts.blogspot.com/2008/07/dbc-facts.html
Anne Marie Baer’s DBC members - No Voting Power http://www.annemariemetaasl.com/2008/07/10/dbc-members-no-voting-power/
Amy Cohen Efron’s revelation of her former founding core member role and acknowledgement of infiltration of Deafhood into DBC: http://blog.deafread.com/abcohende/2008/07/13/revelation-and-vision-of-the-future-signing-community/
Deaf Pundit, of Deaf Edge, also a former core DBC member, had confirmed the statements of Dr. Hokocan. Dianrez acknowledged that she was pushed out without any notice. MZ, AM, DP, and Dianrez still root for DBC. MZ
P.S. Someone asked what Ella wrote. So here is it: . “And sadly, all those worse accusations about DBC by Mishka Zena, Amy Cohen, Dr Hocokon, Ben Vess, etc who werent even there at the conference… you didn’t bother to challenge them. Some of them were confusing, some were outrageous, and they were insulting to the 700+ people who paid their way and gave up a whole weekend to come and see for themselves and every one was inspired and UNITY was present and many wonderful stories (and yes heartbreaking ones too) came out of the Conference, all to be buried with the piles and piles of assumptions by those people and others. And you didn’t bother to check them out?? http://deaffilmblog.blogspot.com/2008/07/leaders-beware-of-assumptions.html”
My question: How can I be outrageous, confusing, and insulting when the materials I’ve documented came from their site, their vlogs, the DBC participants’ and other people’s testimonies that these did happen? Recently a Deaf guy, Northtrue, praised DBC for teaching him to accept self-empowerment. culture, language, and destruction of Deaf culture by c.i. and oralism… comparing Deaf with the oppressed Indians. This is his message, not mine. http://www.deafvideo.tv/video/watch/14223/ That’s fine. However this has nothing to do with bilingualism. This is the deafhood talk. It’s same with Tar. He mention the concept of D.I.E., a term often used in deafhood discussions.
Why would a leader act this way to the concerned Deaf constituents? Why is this person so against us expressing our concerns and looking for truth? This is America, isn’t it? I acknowledge her rights to her beliefs. I don’t criticize her Deafhood. I express my admiration for her dedication to Deafhood. All I ask is transparency and show conflicting messages directly from DBC. This type of behavior is the intimidation factor that inhibits many Deaf people from speaking candidly. Is it healthy for the Deaf Community? No, it’s not. MZ
An Addendum:
Here is an excellent vlog where a Deafhood scholar who studied under Paddy Ladd shares Ladd’s definition of deafhood. Ladd’s version sharply differs from the American version interpreted by several Deafhood Leaders. Since the majority of people haven’t read the book, here is the link where Joseph explains the concept as defined by Ladd himself. By the way, I know Joseph and he is credible. He did study in Britain. MZ
Paddy Ladd’s Conception of Deafhood: http://blog.benvess.com/?p=148
The subject is closed
I’ve thought long and hard about this. I have encouraged DBC twice to become more transparent. I’ve asked two DBC leaders to vp with me, so we can discuss this further, but they both weren’t ‘available’. In e-mails, I asked them why they don’t want to acknowledge to the Deaf Community that they practice Deafhood heavily but received no response. Transparency and integrity are essential as these will benefit the organization and also the Deaf Community.
Since the top DBC leader, also the Deafhood leader, Ella Mae Lentz had accused me of assumption and confusion in the comment section of a vlog, I have no choice but to come forward. These are the facts.
I was one of the founding core members of DBC. When it started, we had a very simple mission: baby signs for deaf babies. Later it was expanded to include deaf babies and deaf children by several members. Two Deafhood leaders began to push Deafhood on us. The majority wasn’t comfortable with that as they only wanted to focus on Bilingualism and nothing further. However, these leaders persisted, ignoring the moderates’ objections. As Anne Marie Baer said, there was no voting or due process, including an election of DBC leaders, though we wanted to set up a formal system, etc. Finally two moderates, including me, resigned and four other moderates were pushed out summarily without notice afterwards. Then I found out two other leaders, including a strong Deafhood proponent, were appointed one month prior to my resignation and none of us knew about this new development. We went ahead and set up our organization which addresses to deaf bilingualism only. Some wanted to disclose to the public, but another former member and I asked them not to mention anything. We still want to see DBC succeed. Looking back, I wonder if that was a mistake keeping quiet as afterwards Dr Hocokan volunteered his hard labor for four months, believing in bilingualism only to find out the Deafhood agenda has been infiltrated into the organization. What Dr Hocokan had described so far, run parallel to what we experienced. Very recently, Dianrez and Anne Marie acknowledged being booted out without any notice.
For me, as long as Deafhood is what Deaf people want in DBC, that’s fine with me. However, I’ll be honest and say that some moderates don’t feel good to see the DBC hijacked to serve two purposes instead of the original one, especially when they toiled hard to build the foundation and provide research information. They feel that if parents see Deafhood, they will not get the message about the value of ASL with Deaf children. It happens that I agree with them. But two Deafhood leaders disagree and they are certainly entitled to their opinions.
Their definition of Deafhood is somewhat different than mine as I have come to terms with my own deafhood many years ago. All deaf people, whether they are ASL users, C.I. users, deaf oralists, hard of hearing, and cued speech users, etc are embraced. Whether the person views deafness as a medical pathology or a deafhood is irrelevant to me as I look at the whole person. The Deafhood concepts are fascinating - the audism, the audism behind the cochlear implants and oralism, and its impact on Deaf education and Deaf Community. All of these ideas are profound and thought-provoking. In my opinion, the labeling of deaf groups is divisive and not encouraged. Personal attacks on deaf people by another deaf group due to cultural intolerance on either side are not condoned, either.
The longer the DBC leaders continued without disclosing their second agenda to the Deaf Community, the more puzzled I became. At first I thought it was due to fear of rejection, but it doesn’t make sense because three DBC leaders are openly identified as Deafhood leaders. The Deafhood themes became more obvious in the blogs and vlogs over the period of time, including the DBC convention. Hence my encouragement for them to become more transparent. The importance of one being true to oneself and others is paramount, especially in the Deaf community where many feel too inhibited in expressing their real opinions openly.
I also saw how inspired and empowered Deaf people were when they attended the DBC Conference. In my personal belief, some Deaf people need empowerment and feel good about their deafness, both long overdue. As you know, I am all for Deaf activism and empowerment as long as mutual respect and tolerance for the diversity of D/deaf people are practiced. This includes their rights to their beliefs, whether we agree with them or not.
At the conference, the majority of time was spent on Deaf Bilingualism, with excellent lecturers versed in this field. However, Deafhood, audism, oralism, cochlear implants, and sharing of negative experiences were also covered. Many Deaf people resonated with the conference, so it was a very successful conference for Deaf participants. The targeted audience was, in my honest opinion, the Deaf Community, not the hearing parents of deaf babies and toddlers. As long as Deaf people are aware of that, this isn’t a problem.
Yet one thing remains unclear to me. The DBC carrying two different agendas, Deaf Bilingualism and Deafhood, is increasingly becoming more apparent. Why do the leaders feel reluctant to be more transparent with its members and the Deaf Community? Instead of being willing to discuss this with the concerned members of the Deaf Community, they attacked those who gave them constructive feedback, using intimidation tactics and utilizing some of theirs followers to speak up for them. Repeatedly I get the feeling none of Deaf people can give honest and constructive feedback at all without being accused of trying to destroy DBC or practicing crab theory. In my blog, I tend to cover many topics, with various point of views, popular or unpopular. Some readers disagree with me, but they are entitled to their opinions. However, this also leads to some bashing on me in my own blog, but I don’t accuse them of practicing crab theory since it comes with the territory. The Deaf leaders should be able to handle constructive feedback professionally without restoring into negative and destructive attacks to denigrate concerned Deaf people.. This particular dynamic of intimidating people isn’t healthy for the Deaf Community. Aidan Mack is correct. Healthy dialogue is a must for the Deaf Community.
So this brings back the question: Why are DBC leaders not being forthcoming with their Deafhood agenda?
A note: I would respectfully ask for no bashing. I hope DBC will continue to be successful. All I am asking is the organization to show transparency, integrity, and tolerance for Deaf members.
Sites from other ex-core DBC members:
Dr. Hokocan’s DBC Facts: http://dbcfacts.blogspot.com/2008/07/dbc-facts.html
Anne Marie Baer’s DBC members - No Voting Power http://www.annemariemetaasl.com/2008/07/10/dbc-members-no-voting-power/
Amy Cohen Efron’s revelation of her former founding core member role and acknowledgement of infiltration of Deafhood into DBC: http://blog.deafread.com/abcohende/2008/07/13/revelation-and-vision-of-the-future-signing-community/
Deaf Pundit, of Deaf Edge, also a former core DBC member, had confirmed the statements of Dr. Hokocan. Dianrez acknowledged that she was pushed out without any notice. MZ, AM, DP, and Dianrez still root for DBC. MZ
P.S. Someone asked what Ella wrote. So here is it: . “And sadly, all those worse accusations about DBC by Mishka Zena, Amy Cohen, Dr Hocokon, Ben Vess, etc who werent even there at the conference… you didn’t bother to challenge them. Some of them were confusing, some were outrageous, and they were insulting to the 700+ people who paid their way and gave up a whole weekend to come and see for themselves and every one was inspired and UNITY was present and many wonderful stories (and yes heartbreaking ones too) came out of the Conference, all to be buried with the piles and piles of assumptions by those people and others. And you didn’t bother to check them out?? http://deaffilmblog.blogspot.com/2008/07/leaders-beware-of-assumptions.html”
My question: How can I be outrageous, confusing, and insulting when the materials I’ve documented came from their site, their vlogs, the DBC participants’ and other people’s testimonies that these did happen? Recently a Deaf guy, Northtrue, praised DBC for teaching him to accept self-empowerment. culture, language, and destruction of Deaf culture by c.i. and oralism… comparing Deaf with the oppressed Indians. This is his message, not mine. http://www.deafvideo.tv/video/watch/14223/ That’s fine. However this has nothing to do with bilingualism. This is the deafhood talk. It’s same with Tar. He mention the concept of D.I.E., a term often used in deafhood discussions.
Why would a leader act this way to the concerned Deaf constituents? Why is this person so against us expressing our concerns and looking for truth? This is America, isn’t it? I acknowledge her rights to her beliefs. I don’t criticize her Deafhood. I express my admiration for her dedication to Deafhood. All I ask is transparency and show conflicting messages directly from DBC. This type of behavior is the intimidation factor that inhibits many Deaf people from speaking candidly. Is it healthy for the Deaf Community? No, it’s not. MZ
An Addendum:
Here is an excellent vlog where a Deafhood scholar who studied under Paddy Ladd shares Ladd’s definition of deafhood. Ladd’s version sharply differs from the American version interpreted by several Deafhood Leaders. Since the majority of people haven’t read the book, here is the link where Joseph explains the concept as defined by Ladd himself. By the way, I know Joseph and he is credible. He did study in Britain. MZ
Paddy Ladd’s Conception of Deafhood: http://blog.benvess.com/?p=148
The subject is closed
July 11th, 2008 at 10:50 am
Wow, such eloquence. I love it.
I hope you will be answered.
-ben
July 11th, 2008 at 11:00 am
Nice posting.
Balance and check is needed in DBC, all right… hopefully it will acknowledge the moderates soon.
July 11th, 2008 at 11:13 am
After seeing DBC vlogs few months with DBC core members, I knew immediately that this organization was infilatred with the DeafHood agenda. How sad!
What about our deaf children???
I was going to criticize the DBC leadership publicly, but was urged by someone else not to. I silently gave the DBC a chance to prove themselves at the conference. That was a reason for me not going to the DBC conference in the first place.
One particular individual surely inflict hir own agenda to turn the DBC into the vehicle of Deafhood, instead of being a real bilingual organization to promote bilingualism and ASL for our deaf children.
Look at the Republican Party nowday! The GOP used to be the moderate political party with pro-business leanings and efficent government without any wasteful government spendings. It have been hijacked by the social conservatives whom pushed their own social agendas for what the American society should be all about. GOP is no longer the party of strong government and low taxes!
Democratic Party used to be the anti-black ##########/social diversity party. It have been changed much better to more diverse to broaden their own constitutency. Of course, GOP always good at exploiting people’s fears about radical changes within the society. Look what happened to our country so far for past 30 years!
I personally have nothing against the concept of Deafhood so far. DBC is not really the place for pushing the Deafhood upon people. Keep topics seperate within the DBC, please.
Frederick Douglas did espouse personal hatred for the evil of slavery and former masters during his tours with the abolitionist movement. In the end, abolitionist movement dragged themselves without producing any significant results to end the slavery in the United States. The bloody Civil War took care of the slavery issue along with Lincoln’s “Empanciation Proclamation” to keep England from getting involved with the Confederacy.
Same thing happened with DBC, too many deaf people are really angry with the AGBAD for its past history to disfranchisize deaf people more than a century.
That is very normal for some people acting this way.
Are we head for the real civil war between audists and propoents of ASL and bilingualism in near future? I guess so!
AGBell need to think deeply before it keep promoting the AVT programs without use of ASL. Please make a real compromise and come to the table to work out agreements and embrace the reality of successful educational means for deaf youngsters than being stuck with the so-called ideology to promote oralism and put $$ into the pockets of cochlear implant and audiological-leaning industry, ex. audiologists and doctors.
Everyone could get hurt if the DBC do not reflect upon itself what they have been doing. Same thing with the AGBell, too.
I would be not surprised that I will be smeared with lies and endless attacks. Guess what? I will be NOT really afraid to fight back in very nasty way.
Important of all is to embrace the difference of opinons and criticisms and digest them without resorting to systematic attacks.
Robert L. Mason (RLM)
July 11th, 2008 at 11:25 am
How sad.
I am doing this for the majority of the hearing (and deaf) parents of the deaf babies’ sake.
I am an ASL fluent. I *was* an oralist. I do feel a pain for them…..
No diversity. I am getting an emotional.
You did good, MZ.
July 11th, 2008 at 11:29 am
MZ, yup, I know which organization you are talking about… several months ago I gave the link to ISD (the superintendent and Outreach’s EI program) and both love the organization that you and AM set up… very informative.
July 11th, 2008 at 11:30 am
Hi Mishka!
To report you that I already went to the fancy hotel nearby airport for SJIAA Reunion (oral deaf school St Joseph Inst for the Deaf Alumni Association) last Saturday night!
I got report from one Deaf did told me that his hearing father is still strong member of AGB for long time. He is still against ASL since he learned from NTID. His father still against him , his Deaf wife and his 3 hearing CODA children…He had problems with his father that he never believed him that some SJI nuns and hearing Dorm RA did badly physically abused him and other boys in the boys dorm.. I got several Deaf reported to me last Saturday night at the hotel lobby.
AGB is not 100% Diversity! thanks. gotta go now.
July 11th, 2008 at 11:36 am
Greetings Brothers & Sisters,
MZ demonstrated the best of best. She of all people understand integrity and practices it. She is the ideal mentor for each of us to look up to. Thank you, MZ for the core values. Above all, thank you for coming forward as a former founding member of DBC.
In the past few days I’ve received intimidating and threatening emails from several DBC Core Members who encouraged me not to post information on the blogs and vlogs as if they did not want me to disclose the truth and jeopardize the entire DBC movement and mission. In reality, it was them who jeopardized DBC’s movement and mission.
The latest email came in last night telling me I’d be welcomed back into DBC if I stopped whatever I was doing. I will post these emails as part of DBC Facts evidence at http://www.DBCfacts.com.
Regardless I responded and told them that there were still an opportunity for them to come clean with me and others. They still have not restored integrity so my quest for integrity and dignity will continue.
I’m going to the store today to purchase a scanner machine to scan evidences and documents and will post them accordingly.
Regards,
Barry Sewell
July 11th, 2008 at 11:59 am
You brought a tear to my eye. I agree with you 100%.
Sorry to have to name names, but Ella, GG, and DE have to go if DBC is trying to separate itself from Deafhood and to gain trust by the rest of the Deaf community who is for moderation.
Unless DBC is aimed for empowerment and Deaf/ASL pride, I am all for it! The trio is awesome for that part. But for deaf children? I am staying as far away as possible unless the trio leaves DBC.
July 11th, 2008 at 12:08 pm
MZ
Thanks for sharing this with me. I truly regret that I am blinded by the DBC. At first I was thrilled to hear the news about DBC but a few weeks later I sense that the organization goes wrong. Based on my opinion, DBC must have diverse members and runs like any other organizations — Such as voting, bylaws, and many more. Diverse Deaf people must be welcomed. They must remain professional and keep themselves quiet. I am the only Deaf member of the organization here in Boston (I will not disclosed here- if you wanna know - ask away if you can!) . I attend the meeting with interpreters monthly. We have worked together with respect and courtesy. Once more .. the teamwork is a key. We cannot leak any important information outside of the organization without the press release. Once the information gets out without it. Without the press release, the mixed information comes out and it will go all wrong. Again I have noticed the members of DBC keep sending out the mixed messages. It is pretty dangerous and confusion. Those people need to be more careful of they have to say publicly. I wish the DBC well. The time will come. DBC is so new. I will just back off and see how it goes since it is only less a year old. Sorry I am still wary of my english writing so pardon my grammar mistakes. Smile.
Ex-Deaf Oralist and Pride Deaf ASL-er, Diane
July 11th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
Well-said!!!!
July 11th, 2008 at 12:10 pm
Well said!
No. 8 Comment, well said, too.
July 11th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
Comment #8 - Native ASL/CI Parent and Child:
I agree with with you 100%.
When I read Aidan’s vlog and Ella made the comment that was uncalled for. She made me very furious. Ella needs to apologize to Aidan.
…..as well as others.
July 11th, 2008 at 12:20 pm
Diane, you wrote just fine. :o)
July 11th, 2008 at 12:30 pm
WG:
Ella will never apologize. She is a hard-core militant with an agenda that is not hidden. She is an amazing woman who accomplished so much in her life timeand did so much good for the Deaf community with regards to ASL and empowerment.
My personal opinion is that she does best in that area of Deaf revival type of gatherings than in the area of Deaf education. I was told she does not have a graduate degree nor a credential in Deaf education. She shoud not be seen as an expert in deaf education as it is a very very complex domain.
Deafhood is a great concept and the trio I mentioned in comment #8 does it very well. DBC if we want it to flourish and to stay focused on bilingualism in deaf education (including CI/speech therapy/AVT), we need deaf education professionals including audiologists and AVT and/or SLPs to add balance to the DBC organizers in order to attract parents of deaf children who want their children to learn ASL and to hear and speak with their aids and/or implants.
Keep Deafhood OUT of DBC or else make it transparent that DBC is all about Deafhood and ASL for all deaf babies and children.
July 11th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
“Ella, GG, and DE have to go if DBC is trying to separate itself from Deafhood and to gain trust by the rest of the Deaf community who is for moderation.” –native asl/ci parent and child
Thanks, Native ASL/CI parent. You have put your finger on it…to avoid confusion and sending out conflicting messages, the three Deafhood proponents need to leave DBC entirely and allow the parent-focused people to steer the group.
The three are awesome and inspiring in their fields; they just need to go their own way separately for the good of DBC.
July 11th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
Yes, as charismatic leaders, Ella and DE maintain a strong passion for Deafhood and have this amazing gift of inspiring the Deaf Community. The concept of steering away from the medical pathologicalization of deafness and celebrating the linguistic and cultural aspect of Deaf Community is much needed for the Deaf Community, as most don’t consider themselves ‘disabled’. Yet they feel very much oppressed and misunderstood by the public. The majority also needs to heal from the damaging effects of oralism and audism. Despite of our ideological differences, I do respect Ella as a strong and dynamic person with strong beliefs in ASL and Deaf people
July 11th, 2008 at 12:48 pm
Deafhood is NOT an organization or group of people at all!!! Everyone seems to get the wrong idea of the term “Deafhood”.
Try to think this way, it is similiar to Motherhood. Just like motherhood, it is way of life.
Some people are really into motherhood, others are not. Its same thing for Deafhood.
Look at this way, you know PTA (Parents Teacher Association), you can’t tell them to keep motherhood OUT!!!
July 11th, 2008 at 12:52 pm
I feel like I am not smart here. Many are good in English .. umm.. I am off the point here at number 8?
July 11th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
It feels good to be finally understood by some of you despite some of our differing views. I am sure the ASL/CI community feels the same way.
DBC should be parent-driven. I am a parent of a Deaf child and I have not yet found an organization that I fully agree with. I use AGB resources for specific needs relating to my child’s IEP. I am well versed in deaf education and Hands and Voices is a great site for parents who are seeking for information relating to all options in deaf education.
Where do I go to in order to collaborate with other parents who are all for ASL and AVT? There is NONE in this entire nation if not the whole world. Not a hyperbole, but a fact. I have great ideas about how to merge the two as my son is a living proof that it can be done and where do I go to share my successful stories and to provide support for new parents who are curious about merging the both approaches? They come up to me and say very often that their oral program tell them they shouldn’t sign to their children if they choose oralism and schools for the Deaf tell them they should sign ASL all the time and there is no spoken language component in Deaf schools except during speech therapy. Total Commnication programs are like a big messy pot of unstructured information on how to educate deaf children. Just put your child in the TC classroom and we will sign SEE to them and you learn SEE and you can talk to them at the same time. Where is the organization that I and many other parents are seeking for in order to better meet our Deaf children of the modern era?
Im rambling on, I know, but time is of essence and I want some of you to hear first hand from a parent of a CI deaf child who is for true bilingualism.
July 11th, 2008 at 12:57 pm
Native ASL/CI Parent,
You can set up a yahoo listserv so when people search for the key words, they can find the group. Then you all can get together and set up a formal organization. I am sure there are other parents who feel the same way you do
July 11th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
DR, you hit the nail spot on the head in your vlogs, especially where you mentioned the due process, as well as where they did not even try to establish formal meetings with AG Bell before embarking upon their actions in Milwaukee. Like you, I have a strong business background and can tell you from my own experience that if they did this in the business world, they would dig the hole so deep that they probably could not get out of it.
As for deafhood, while I have my own definition of it and I am very comfortable with who I am, I grew up oral and did not learn to sign until when I was an adult. I am a fluent signer nowadays and my attitude is that I would much rather be around deaf people than hearing people although I do speak and read lips quite well.
However, throughout my life, I’ve had to deal with the “deafhood radicals” that have tried to tell me that “I am not deaf enough”, so I ask “is that because im not a DoD?” they say “Np. its because you speak and read lips”. The irony is that in many of these cases, the severity of my hearing loss is often worse than theirs, as it is over 100dB in both of my ears, so I think “who the f*ck are you to tell me I am not deaf enough?”
Unfortunately, a few years ago, I met Ella for the first time and we got along fine at first, up until I brought my oral background, I could sense an immediate and significant change in her attitude towards me. It had me wondering WTF?????
I love ASL and its language, altho English is my first language. I wish I had learned ASL at an earlier age, but I am not going to dwell on it, but it is for this very reason that bilingualism is something I would support wholeheartedly in a heartbeat. If DBC brings in the type of leaders the deviate from the bilingualism concept and try to pull in deafhood radical leaders who potentially say that “I am not deaf enough” then it completely defeats the whole purpose of bilingualism.
Bilingualism is about using both English and ASL and it should not matter if they’re deaf, hard of hearing, use CI, etc.
July 11th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
We do have ASL/CI Yahoo listserv for Deaf parents of CI children, but remember the 95 percent of deaf children areexcluded from that listserv because their parents aren’t deaf.
DBC would have been something the 95 percent could go to get information and collaborate. The parents at my son’s oral school come up to tell me they do not have anywhere to go to get information about both oralism/AVT and signing ASL to their children as a support in the classroom and in the home. Thus far I have been their resource.
There is none out there.
July 11th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
Diane, there are geniuses out there that don’t know the english language well either, so trust us on this one when we say that we think you are smart
However, your English level is still quite good compared to many others out there in this world. Hold your head high with pride…..you’re smart 
July 11th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
Diane :o)
I sense you have a good soul… and you have always impressed me as a smart person, in Boston, graduating from Gallaudet, etc. I am not smart, but I have common sense and I gain a lot of information from reading and I just step back and try to see a bigger picture and see if the puzzle pieces fit together or not.
Your comments DO fit :o)
July 11th, 2008 at 1:21 pm
Nothing new under the sun about charmisa.
The world was in a disaster in the name of
Hitler, for one.
Stalin, for another.
July 11th, 2008 at 1:24 pm
I dunno about myself … I don’t know you Karen Mayes and nice meeting you. Hope you have a good weekend.
July 11th, 2008 at 1:27 pm
Jean, not to be a nitpicker here or to try to make you look bad or anything but unless charmisa is a new word I hadn’t learned yet, but I presume you mean charisma?
July 11th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
Wow, Mishka! Great blog! I’m still trying to get my jaw off of the floor.
Once again, I still don’t agree that Deafhood should be applied to DBC’s mission statement. That has nothing to do with Deaf babies/children. Deafhood is for the Deaf adults ONLY, period. The hearing parents would not understand how would Deafhood work for their Deaf babies/children because that is not their journeys. That should be left up to Deaf people to go on their journeys alone.
I had viewed Anne Marie Baer’s vlog about no voting power. That has been very disturbing and unsettling. It is so wrong on many levels. Each organization, club and etc. should have the voting power. That is part of important on our democracy rights.
I’m really appalled that DBC never bother to inform the exiting members their real reason for letting them go. That is not proper way to treat everyone. Obviously I’m sure they have had lost DBC’s respect even though ex-members still support DBC and their original mission statement.
Misha
July 11th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
God. This is now officially a witch hunt, thanks to you commenters. And a lot of your info is false. Genie Gertz is not part of the DBC core committee, yet some of you are naming her. Get your facts straight.
Enough is enough. This is no longer a quest for truth - it is a witch hunt. What’s next - burning DE and Ella at the stake??? Look at yourselves.
July 11th, 2008 at 1:49 pm
[some comments were deleted due to unacceptable content. Racist terms, homosexual bashing, and religious talk aren’t permitted here]
July 11th, 2008 at 1:49 pm
Well the truth hurts, eh?
Don’t YOU have a problem with an organization that’s run as if it’s the Communist Party, squashing the moderates, just to protect the sacred and holy Ella and DE?
Everyone can see that MZ gave them both positive comments. She just reported the facts as she learned them. What’s the problem with that?
When the light exposes the false, don’t blame the light!
July 11th, 2008 at 1:51 pm
Observer,
Where were you when DBC members called deaf people deficit thinkers, colonialists and oppressors? Where were you when the DBC founder demanded deficit thinkers, oral deaf and people be censored from DeafRead?
They can dish it out, but they cannot take it?
Okie Dokie
July 11th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
I agree with observer above.
This is very disturbing to me how such a tiny number of people could create so much noise based on false information- and they do not even know what happened at the conference, really, because they were not there.
These naysayers have no credibility at all (the main ones). One of them criticizes Deafhood but didn’t even read the book, making the aburd claim that Deafhood is a continuation of the Deaf Power movement. But there was no such thing as a Deaf power movement. Maybe 3 or 4 people back in the late 1960’s printed up a few bumper stickers, and that’s all.
This is becoming like a “theater of the absurd.”
July 11th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
another observer, i presume you havent gone to the http://www.dbcfacts.com website? That information is coming from some people originally involved with DBC and you’re saying that they have no credibility?
July 11th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
Go see Aaron Cues blog in DV.
July 11th, 2008 at 2:13 pm
EricJIndra — I am not into the religious stuffs here. I don’t think you fully understand the diverse means to you. Diverse comes with respect, courtesy, and many more — without fighting against each others based on religious, racism, and la la…. As an Ex- Deaf oralist — (At the few events where I went) Several Deaf militants rarely give me hard time because of my own upbringing. I didn’t chose this where I come from. Today I live here in Boston .. I have no problem in dealing various Deaf people here. I haven’t been to the DBC in Milwaukee but I can sense that something goes wrong (after reading many comments and mixed messages) I just hope the DBC can straight this out soon otherwise it will fall apart. Teamwork is a must. Open minded is a must too.
Diane
July 11th, 2008 at 2:13 pm
Well-spoken, MZ.
To native asl/CI parent and child,
Your heart is in the right place. ASL and written/spoken English are like the pieces of a puzzle that come together and fit perfectly in a deaf child’s education, regardless of hearing technology or not.
To anon at #21,
My experiences are nearly identical to yours, although I struggle with ASL as I started very late in my life.
Like you, I instinctively understood the concept of bilingualism for babies and young children. It makes a lot of sense. I wish for more research to back this up so oralists can’t use ASL as an excuse to say it hinders an oral deaf child’s education.
To Diane,
Your message was “loud and clear”. I gotcha.
To observer #29,
I understand that Genie Gertz is not a DBC core member, but she is a Deafhood seminar presenter. This association may have some people confusing her with DBC leadership.
Contrary to what you say, I don’t think MZ’s article here is a witch-hunt of Ella and DE. MZ has expressed admiration for Ella’s and DE’s passion for Deafhood, but is concerned that Deafhood has turned DBC’s mission into a confusing double message.
DBC should decide which way to go. A two-headed creature will have a hard time making up its mind where to go and will end up expending far more energy and time going off in several directions, rather than just one. The end result is that the creature really doesn’t know where it’s going, the two heads can’t think together.
July 11th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
Oppression, Stereotypical assumption and Diversity issues always have been around throughout the world history over 2000 years.
My family ancestors were Puritans, Dutch Reformed and Quakers. Puritans started the witchcraft trials in Salem MA in late 1600’s. Puritans acted being assumptions on anybody related to “Devil” over tiny things such as witches, women, birth defects, adultery, alcoholics, thieves, independent religious thinkers… Same thing happened in Europe before Salem, MA!
I am totally sick of hearing about DBC, AGB and NAD issues over and over again on this blog. Are we in witchcraft trials like back to Salem, MA or what? We are simply D E A F people as human being!!! Everyone made mistakes and n body is perfect! We can overcome the obstacles and it will make us stronger.
July 11th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
There will be more from others.
I have already acknowledged that there were a lot of grounds covered in bilingualism. However, the fact that audism, deafhood, oralism and the evils of AG Bell cannot be denied. Anyone only needs to check the blogs, vlogs, and the press publications to see them.
Not that I am saying people shouldn’t talk about oralism, deafhood, and audism. On the contrary, they were entitled to and obviously it helped them a lot to share their experiences. As a person with an oral background, I have seen people not doing well in the oralism system and how they suffered. All of these should be aired. I am glad that they felt confident to speak out as they deserved to be heard. I am glad that they have a forum. Where else can they speak? There is no forum for these people as of now until DBC came on. The oral education system needs to be held accountable for what they have done to countless deaf people.
I am also not criticizing deafhood. Everybody have their definition of deafhood, a personal journey of self examination and self acceptance.
I only ask that DBC be fully transparent instead pretending it is only bilingualism. Why are people trying so hard to deny the deafhood part of DBC and accusing the founding core members of lying? What do we have to gain by lying when in reality we are setting ourselves to be viciously attacked and our character maligned by telling the truth? We are not making any money. We only want the best for the Deaf Community
This gets weirder and weirder
July 11th, 2008 at 2:16 pm
The Rogue,
Didn’t you see me complimenting Ella and DE for their Deafhood work? Why isn’t it permissable for me to ask DBC to show transparency? Why isn’t it ok for DBC to acknowledge that it does explore Deafhood? What’s wrong with that? If they really believe in it, so be it. Why hide? That’s the part I don’t understand. People should have the courage to stand up for their beliefs. This is America.
I can understand if you are sick of my topics lately. It’s not for everybody since it’s not an entertainment blog. I like to explore different topics and examine the sociological aspects as I cover them. They may be old news for others, but it’s mostly new for me. I see that some people learned something from my blog.
July 11th, 2008 at 2:16 pm
This took a lot of courage to share this and hope to see the feedback utilized to improve in the best interest of Deaf children everywhere. I agree, it appears more and more that people want these different issues need to be separated. Combined I think has hurt the effort more than helped.
I do hope those involved with DBC respond to your concerns.
Meanwhile, Thanks for all the work you are doing to spread awareness and educate on a variety of issues via your blog.
Best.
July 11th, 2008 at 2:21 pm
Ann_C
Yes. The reason why I respect and understand the majority of the hearing parents of the deaf babies to go through the confused stages when they get the double messages (from DBC and Deafhood). That’s not fair to them.
Deafhood is the personal group/identity. Many hearing parents/people will never understand that kind of message. That’s not fair to them, too.
Deafhood must leave from the DBC as well as the NAD. NAD have worked with many hearing people.
July 11th, 2008 at 2:29 pm
MZ,
No one is forcing me to read. What is making you think that way? I am just expressing my pure honest ans straightforward what I thought. I will stay out of it.
July 11th, 2008 at 2:31 pm
Rogue, I appreciate your feedback. In fact, after this, I am planning to resume my break that I interrupted.
Have a good summer.
July 11th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
I deeply admire Elizabeth’s passion. Yes, I’m with Ben - let’s all hope her thoughts will be acknowledged by DBC.
Diane, you write quite all right so don’t worry. Keep your head up high as possible. Are you the same Diane who goes by this nickname “Sweetmind” in other deaf forums?
July 11th, 2008 at 2:55 pm
Gal,
I would like to correct you on something. The term, Deafhood is not an organization but Deafhood Foundation is. And this organization controls Deafhood’s workshop inside seework. Everything that DBC does is stored in Deafhood Foundation’s seework account. Everything is controlled by these few leaders that runs DBC,
Diane,
I do not think you are giving yourself enough credit. You, like everybody are gifted in different ways. You as well as each one of us are beautiful human beings. Being smart does not make or break you and your ability to be productive in this world. It is the good spirit that does. How come? Our spiritual language promotes integrity. You will do very well if you stand for integrity. Additionally there are many different “smarts”. Having said that I am sure you are a lot smarter in so many different ways than some of us are. To write well is only one small portion of “smarts”. We have to act responsibly. That’s one of the smarts. We have to promote integrity. That is one of the smarts. The list goes on and on. Remember this… I saw nothing wrong with your writing skills. I have seen many business people who write terribly but yet they are financially successful. What does that tell us? They use their other smarts to become productive in life.
Anyway, sorry for changing the subject.
Another Observer,
The numbers don’t matter. It is the principle and integrity that matters here. Even if I was the only one that stood up and fought for integrity I would do it. Those who knows me well knows that it’s been my life story. Standing up for the truth even if I have to do it alone. That in itself is powerful enough just as powerful as the stroke of a pen.
July 11th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
MZ,
One more thing.. It is not about you. Some people made ridiculous comments. Yes, you are right it is America.
You are entitled to retrieve the information from DBC. You wanted to see the facts. You simply wanted to know what kind of DBC’s philosophy. I would do the same.
I assumed DBC may treat themselves like Fraternity/ Sorority club or they may be too new to prepare for everything like “Unorganized” organization. You may know that all Frat/Sorority don’t usually provide their secretive information to anybody. : )
I wish to see more radical and reasonable comments like you. You made good points.
Just stand up what you believe in.
Have a good summer!
July 11th, 2008 at 3:00 pm
I enjoyed to learn your different opinions from blogger, vlogger and commenters.
However, the negative remarks against the DBC became unstoppable daily. Why? Probably you don’t realize when you unconsciously force them to change their perspective in order to meet your desired perspective.
I believe that every Deaf child, who is native visual-learner, learn a visual-based language (ASL). Until his/her Deaf child’s ASL becomes solid, then every Deaf child learn English literacy.
Until his/her English language finally emulated with ASL in order to meet the goal of the bilingualism, then every Deaf child wants to expand his/her education by learning foreign language, communication modes as such SEE or Cued Speech and developing his/her speech skills.
I am not against the speech training or non-ASL communication modes but I am against the top priority of speech training and communication modes over ASL. That’s how the AGB’s messed up priorities that permanently damaged many Deaf child’s literacy.
The concepts of Deafhood and Deafness are completely different. Are you aware that the Deafhood is strongly pro-supporter of the Bilingualism? Also, the hearing people are welcomed to the Deafhood movement as hearing allies. Do you know that?
Secondly, every Deaf child needs to look up at Deaf role model who is ASL signer and well educated person.. It helps empowering Deaf child. In the dark era of Pure Oralism movement (1920’s), the oralists feared of the role model of Deaf signers that causes many Deaf child become not interested in Speech training.
I am not sure to understand why some people want that the DBC must be restrictedly focused on only agenda - Bilingualism.
Comparing to the AGB organization, it has several agendas such CI, AVT, Speech training, communication modes. Why?
CI or hearing aids will never be equalized to the ASL. CI or hearing aids are simply soulless machine. I believe that the DBC leaders don’t have their forte of any audiology-related issues except language and empowerment. So, the DBC leaders don’t see any good reason for answering the audiology-related question.
My picture of the DBC is almost one year old baby that does not know how to handle with many negative attacks as same as every Deaf child feels lost unexpectedly when the audists take American Sign Language away from his/her native language the deaf child needs visual-based education.
Finally, everyone including myself are not perfect because of either human beings or sinners.
July 11th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
“Unfortunately, a few years ago, I met Ella for the first time and we got along fine at first, up until I brought my oral background, I could sense an immediate and significant change in her attitude towards me. It had me wondering WTF?????”
Anon #21: Ella knows that I was raised orally and I am from hearing family. She never looks down on me. I’m surprised to hear what you are saying. I am shocked to hear that some people would claim Deafhood is anti-hearing people, anti-people-with-CIs, and anti-people-raised-orally.
Look at Adam Stone’s recent vlog, he is a Deaf person with a CI. He took a Deafhood class and is inspired by it. He still wears his CI.
My hearing professors are the reasons why I becoming successful as a filmmaker. If I had known that Deafhood was anti-hearing people, I would not adopt this concept. I would never abandon Deaf people with CIs including Deaf babies or Deaf children with CIs even though I don’t agree with the idea of CI. If I had known that Deafhood is anti-Deaf-people-with-CIs, including deaf babies/Deaf children, I would never adopt this concept.
I can see some people are hurting about the situation and I feel for them. Can you tell me what I can do to help us to move forward toward healing and to focus on Deaf babies/Deaf children? They are the ones who will get hurt the most if we keep up the infighting, shutting each other out, and being criticized for having a healthy dialogue.
Warmly,
Aidan
July 11th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
Just for clarification purposes, I dont think the bulk of these information and comments are targeted specifically towards DBC as an organization overall, but more towards a group of people behind DBC that a lot of people feel that are deviating from the original purpose of DBC and that want to see that stopped and stick to the original purpose of DBC.
The original goals of DBC and Deafhood Foundation may be very good in their own way, but they should not be intermingled.
The impression that I am getting from people here is that they are attempting to intermingle to two concepts of bilingualism and deafhood and they are two separate and different concepts that can get very confusing when they are intermingled. Additionally, I would imagine that more people would support the concept of blingualism than they would for deafhood, therefore DBC stands to lose more people if the deafhood concept is intermingled with DBC. Especially when it comes to hearing parents of deaf babies.
You do not want to throw the deafhood concept at these hearing parents as it will scare them away. What should be done is to teach bilingualism and then when the deaf baby is older and knows ASL, then bring in the deafhood concept at a later stage of that child’s life.
Deafhood does not apply to hearing parents, as I understand it and correct me if I am wrong, simply because they are not deaf. That being the case, the parent is not going to feel that they can be a part of the deafhood concept, therefore they back away from DBC and the purpose of bilingualism is defeated with there on the spot.
I think that this is what is concerning many of us.
July 11th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
[some comments were deleted due to unacceptable content. Racist terms and relgious talk aren’t permitted here]
July 11th, 2008 at 3:30 pm
Aidan/ Anon,
Is that true some of those people like DBC and Deafhood are anti-hearing people, anti-people-with-CIs, and anti-people-raised-orally? I am just curious,
I was raised Orally with hearing family. I was the only deaf in my entire relatives. However, I learned PSE/ ASL without taking classed and I just picked up sign language through deaf socially at RIT. My closest friend is cued. I don’t see them differently with their own languages.
I am totally against CI for deaf babies. However, I rather to let the children turned 13 and give them a choice if they wanted CI or not. There are some pros and cons about CI. Audiologist offered me CI every time I visited the appointment. I kept rejecting because I am satisfied with digital hearing aids.
July 11th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
Rogue, to answer your question, as an organization as a whole, the answer to your question is no, but they both do have some people within the organization that are like that, but I refuse to let that allow me to label the whole organization like that, ya know the saying, there’s a few bad apples in every barrel.
Now as for babies with CI’s, this is not to say that I promote it, because I am basically nuetral when it comes to CIs. Likely because I am of the “old school” type. However, the fact is that a baby’s brain is much more of a “sponge” than it is of a teenager or older. When I say “sponge” it means that it absorbs more information on a much quicker basis.
That being the case, a CI is potentially much more effective in deaf babies than it would be on teenagers or older. I have seen deaf adults get CI’s, and they have had it for 5 or more years, and they still cannot use the telephone or identify some sounds. As a matter of fact, a while back, a friend of mine that has had a CI for a few years thought she heard a motorcyle, but it was actually a helicopter.
On the flip side of the same coin, I have seen babies with CIs be able to use telephones when they are 5 or 6 years old and they can actually be placed in public schools as young as kindergarden.
The only reason that happened, is because of the extensive involvement of their parents, these children not only practiced their aural skills at school, but also at home with their parents, siblings, and neighborhood friends.
But bottom line is that once they take off the CI, they are deaf!
July 11th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
I had an interesting discussion with somebody via VP earlier today. Together we talked about Deafhood book written by Paddy Ladd and Deafhood Foundation run by Ella. Having never read Paddy Ladd’s book myself this person shared a little bit about the book’s message. I then explained how Ella interpreted Deafhood and how she distributed the message.
Then I realized something afterwards. I do not know Paddy Ladd and however based on how Ella interpreted the book to me and others is the real cause for concern.
I first heard about Deafhood from Ella herself as soon as I joined to help DBC. She told me that DBC was a small project compared to her Deafhood project. She wanted to know if it was possible for me to support Deafhood Foundation. I said, politely, that it was a possibility. she wanted it for DBC.
Anyway, Ella went on to explain what Deafhood meant. She comapred Deafness to Deafhood, telling me that Deafness was a medical term for deaf people but Deafhood was Deaf people’s preferred term. Her message was confirmed again when DBC developed a power point presentation for the conference in Milwaukee. In this power point presentation it said “Deafness vs Deafhood”, as if we are supposed to choose one or the other. And that is where I rejected the notion. I rejected the notion that I had to choose defaness or deafhood. I rejected the comparision because medical term is based on hard science. Deafhood is based on soft science. Someone explained the difference between hard science and soft science to me last night. I am thankful this person took the time to educate me just as I am thankful to the person who jus VPed me today to tell me what Paddy Ladd’s book was really about.
In conclusion, based on people who have read the Deafhood book and how Ella and her group interpreted the book I think it is possible that the deafhood term was manipulated by Ella and her group whereas they defined it more than what it really is.
Regardless, I will stick to what Ella told me and how her group used DBC to make us believe that we were supposed to choose between deafness and deafhood. It made me wonder if Paddy Ladd is aware of Ella’s Deafhood Foundation? Does he support Deafhood Foundation? Does he subscribe to “Deafness vs Deafhood” theory as seen in DBC’s power point presentation? Where is he? Did he approve the message? If so, I will discredit his book instantly. If not, I shall read it.
July 11th, 2008 at 4:44 pm
Aidan,
?
I do not wanna reveal myself here. I do not wanna to dispel here with you, ok?
“If I had known that Deafhood was anti-hearing people, I would not adopt this concept. I would never abandon Deaf people with CIs including Deaf babies or Deaf children with CIs even though I don’t agree with the idea of CI. If I had known that Deafhood is anti-Deaf-people-with-CIs, including deaf babies/Deaf children, I would never adopt this concept.”
I do not see anything such like this. I do not think this is their intention at all. Oh, please. They know better than this. Where do you get the information like that?
Thank you.
July 11th, 2008 at 5:06 pm
Anon,
You got the points about CI on deaf babies as early learning. Babies’ brain can developing the connection between the brain and CI. I know baby’s brain made out of sponges and they pick things up quickly as fast learner.
However, you always know CI is not 100 percent GUARTNEE for everyone. I hate to see some of hearing parents to have high expectation with CI on their deaf babies . Few years later. Some babies can’t hear with CI. Hearing parents may feel resentment to the deaf child or whatever for CI was not working. I can’t make any assumptions about the parent. I have seen some parent to have a HIGH EXPECTATION. I hate to see totally wasted on “Non functioning CI” babies.
I have two CODA boys. If one of them turned Deaf. I rather to wait until my boy turned 13 and ask him if he wanted CI or not. It is up to anybody’s choices over CI. They need to think about pros and cons about CI.
I have one funny story about my youngest son. When he was 3 years old, he just picked up the swearing word from the babysitter by accident. He kept repeating the word as F&%K U over and over for one week. I just came up the idea. I had to teach my son to say Puck you as derailing the swearing word into hockey word. I showed my son with a hockey puck and hockey game from TV. Suddenly, my son completely forgot the swearing word, whew!!!! Yes, Baby’s brain made out of sponge.
July 11th, 2008 at 5:09 pm
Nevermind, discard my recent question… I reread and I saw the big “IF”… blah. I guess I was impressed that someone else mentioned that what you said about Deafhood. I got impressed that you were not for Deafhood. It got me off guard. Sorry about that.
Okay, I went to your vlog about Deafhood message. I saw plus in it, now I understand the whole thing.
July 11th, 2008 at 5:31 pm
You know, MZ, it’s your call but I have a suggestion.
How about creating a “what if?”forum in your blog in which readers can put in comment form what they’d like to see DBC’s mission as and what constructive improvements can be made. I think this would be a more positive direction than the criticism and backstabbing that is going on, of which many of us are guilty of doing, myself included.
Don’t know if the DBC leadership will listen in or not, but at least some of us can say, we tried.
July 11th, 2008 at 5:40 pm
Ann C
DBC belongs to DBC leaders and members. Only they can decide what they want it to be. I can see that the Deaf people love DBC, so obviously they are doing something right.
If they want both Bilingualism and Deafhood, that’s their prerogative. I don’t think it’s a good combination. But since they feel that way, they should run it the best way they think is best for them.
I personally think DBC is very empowering for Deaf people and help them learn how to become proactive advocates.
I only want transparency so people won’t get confused by conflicting messages. Being open about both agendas will help reduce the confusion and yet empower Deaf people.
I am not sure if you understand what I’m trying to say.
July 11th, 2008 at 5:49 pm
EricJindra —
Do the African American accept the word “xxxxx that you just wrote down? Not likely. It is obvious you still don’t get it .. I think xxxxx is an offensive word to them. Must be very careful with various people here and from all over the world. How do you feel if someone mention that you are Deaf and Dumb? Diverse is to respect and understand the custom of their valves, cultures, and so soon.
EricJindra quotes #51 (see above)
“……. They had to get xxxxx, asian, latino, and etc to order to promote the imagine that they are diversity people but their effective isn’t what it ……”
Deafhood, DBC, and NAD can be very tricky to many of us and they need to sort this out by making a better mission this time. A clear message is a must to every Deaf, HH, parents of Deaf/HH children (with or without Hearing aids or Cochlear implant) and many more. Let’s hope to work out with courtesy and respect.
July 11th, 2008 at 6:17 pm
I understand what you’re saying, MZ, and I agree with you that Bilingualism and Deafhood is not a good combination.
I don’t know about you or other members, but when an organization’s leadership doesn’t listen to the d/Deaf community from which it sprung and doesn’t acknowledge the community’s voices, that’s a red flag right there. That’s called exclusion, and many of us experience plenty of that as it is.
So far, it’s been silence from them and that doesn’t bode well for the organization. If DBC leadership doesn’t want to address the d/Deaf community’s concerns, then what makes hearing parents think that DBC will address THEIR concerns?
July 11th, 2008 at 6:28 pm
EricJindra.
for #30: here’s a little something I scribbled last night on a photo (i can take a scan of it if you want…) This is my words, mine alone.
“Diversity is when a square tries to fit in a circle and not get mad about it.
Diversity is not about tolerance,
Nor is it about acceptance.
Diversity is when you don’t know
And you know, you’ll never understand.
It’s all about differences
and how you’ll react to them.”
-Ben
July 11th, 2008 at 7:02 pm
Great post!! Hand waving.
July 11th, 2008 at 8:22 pm
Native ASL/ci parent and child,
I would love to get in touch with you. I am a deaf parent of two children, one hard of hearing and one deaf. My deaf son has the implant and goes to a school for the deaf in our state. My son lost his hearing at the age of two. He wanted the implant and does very well with it. He is fluent in sign language and he does receive auditory services at his school. The school for the deaf here is very supportive of children with the CI.
July 11th, 2008 at 8:30 pm
Dr. Hocokan, Google books has the whole Paddy book online for anyone to read.
If you have not, you need to watch Joey Baer’s interview with Paddy and read the book and a review by a critic, before you can really understand where Deafhood came from. Joey’s interview with Paddy was very interesting. Paddy was amused that the American turned his book into workshops/seminars.
July 11th, 2008 at 8:50 pm
What about transparency in how money is used via CAD for donation purposes to DBC cause?
http://kokonutpundits.blogspot.com/2008/07/dbc-in-violation-of-irs-charitable.html
Does NAD know about this? Who is controlling the flow of money? Does the IRS know about this? And so on. On DBC website it says that donations to DBC is tax deductible but I question that since you can write a check to DBC directly but DBC is not recognized by the IRS (I have the link to show this) as an organization that’s qualified to be tax deductible to those who donate cash to DBC but CAN is. So, there are more and deeper questions about transparency in this aspect.
July 11th, 2008 at 10:11 pm
Correction:
CAN = CAD (California Association of the Deaf)
July 11th, 2008 at 10:54 pm
Hi all!! Wow this is what we need from DBC leaders to be open to our discussion and comments to listen to the deaf community as a whole no matter what kind of deafness or how much you do know asl or orally or whatever you prefer. I want to say to the resigned dbc founders, bless your hearts we need more people like you all cuz you all have been very open minded sharing info and concerns or idea with the community without any hidden agenda. I thought of that too Mccdonnel wondering why blow 35K on one weekend, they could use it to go to deaf schools to teach or hiring a professional lawyer and PR or even hire a media person as I guess they were too selfish to not use the money for their own pleasure. The resigned dbc founders got my foremost support gracefully. Respectbally, t’care. I just see the ones that aren’t on the DBC board doing a lot more work for us sharing with in the deaf/DEAF community such as jon’s videotape, amy, mz, dh, karen,ben (you are awesome), pixie, anne marie (you deserve a applause for coming out as it sure was a shocking info)and I’m not too sure if I’m missing a few, if I did this goes to you too. I do not have any regret how I was mainstreamed and later in life learned sign language as even I took up speech therapy with a therapist up to high school as well as my beautiful supportive family leading me the way to have a fruitful life to respect all walks of life. Bless ya all,
July 11th, 2008 at 10:58 pm
Mishka Zena wrote:
I can feel your concerns. What intimidation tactics did they utilise? DBC is neither a fraternity nor a sorority; rather, it is an organisation.
July 11th, 2008 at 11:00 pm
#27 anon:
Charmisa was a term coined by a Hitler biographer who was a German psychologist based in Paris. Charming + satanic (note a lower case “s”) becomes charmisatanic (adj.) which evolves to a noun, charmisa (charmi + sa).
Please do not be so hesitatant that you have to use a weapon. No one invites you to be inferior. It is you who do so. Be a true man. Read Goethe.
Bonsoir, Anon__?__(you can, if you so desire to develop imagination, be perfectly free to invent a suffix to your name “Anon” to describe your own self. Do you know what is the latest new word being added in Merriam-Webster this week?
July 11th, 2008 at 11:45 pm
Hi deafmom!!
i would suggest that you sign up with CICDA (CI Children of Deaf Adults) in yahoo groups. The moderators will invite you to the group afterthey know for sure you are Deaf and have a CI child. I am a part of the group.
July 11th, 2008 at 11:46 pm
Guess what? The CAD pageant director is quite upset that California may no longer have Miss Deaf California pageants. Thanks to Ella who said pageants equal to sexism and condemned any possible future CAD hosted pageants.
July 11th, 2008 at 11:56 pm
Who decide no CAD pagenet, what does Ella have to do with it as is she on the board or something. Wasn’t there a vote to have it or not?? I find that strange, are they scared if they make the wrong decisions cuz of what was quoted as I find that pretty strange though.
July 12th, 2008 at 12:35 am
MZ,
Thank you for sharing this post. I agree but I am shocked. I know I am not only one to say that.
Last year, DBC did a fine job. They talked about educating about deaf babies to learn ASL so they wont be delay to learn something in early time. Good one! Now, this year, DBC went different way(Deafhood added). I admit I am really disappointed after reading some b/vlogs last a few days included yours.
Why I said that? Last year, I donated some money to DBC (I am not a member yet). This year? You kknow my answer.
I respect DBC what they want this year but I am not interested until they find the right way.
I guess we better have a good day tomorrow.
Ex-oralist,
Tom
July 12th, 2008 at 1:06 am
jean, i didnt want to try to underestimate your intelligence which was why i asked
thanks for a valuable lesson learned 
July 12th, 2008 at 1:41 am
#69 Jean.
Deaf cult is a right word!
July 12th, 2008 at 1:43 am
MZ,
You censored someone’s comment because it had religious content. What about all the Native American religious stuff that someone posted on your blog recently about “the circle,” etc.
That is clearly religious talk. You are not being consistent.
July 12th, 2008 at 7:28 am
Another Observer,
What I posted about Native Americans were more focused on medicine for therapeutic approaches, not religion aspects. When I spelled spiritual you assumed it represent religion. It is not the same thing. I know many people confuse themselves with spiritual and religion. The Native Americans use spiritual and mediation approaches for their therapeutic needs, not just for religion. This is where you may have confused the two. They do have their religion aspects but when it comes down to their therapeutic approaches they call it the medicine. Their medicine and therapeutic approaches is what I’ve posted. I know better than to publicize their religion in the blogs. It is sacred to them and should be respected.
July 12th, 2008 at 8:30 am
Eric
You hijacked my post to preach religion, quoting bible, using negative and derogatory words about African Americans and another race, and bashing gay people. You show a lack of respect for other people, showing intolerance toward certain groups. Religious, racial, and gay intolerance are NOT accepted here. It offends me and others to hear these negative and judgmental comments against groups of people. By the way, it is my blog. I will not promote hate speech, which society frowns.
You went off a tangent. Please address to the topic. Thank you
July 12th, 2008 at 9:24 am
MZ — Way to go. I was pretty stunned by Eric’s comments. Glad you removed his comments a several hours later. I was pretty confused — *Why would MZ allow this? Can’t be her!*
DEAF
Diverse, Empathy, Attribute, Faithful.
July 12th, 2008 at 10:37 am
Yep, I will sign up for CICDA!
I just wanted to make a few comments regarding DBC. In theory, it sounds great. Encouraging more hearing parents to use ASL with their children. In reality, it is entirely different. In the previous coop my deaf son was in, how many parents signed? Only one. And these parents did not use ASL, they used signed english. They are doing an awesome job with their deaf child, the whole family signs. However, these parents are the exception. Most parents do not even use signed english. To my dismay, most parents don’t sign at all. That is just the way it is. DBC is fighting an uphill battle.
DBC is great for the deaf community. However, we need to find a way to connect with hearing parents. Find common ground. The all or nothing tactic will not work.
By the way, I am a deaf mom and yes, my boys use ASL, they go to a school for the deaf here.
July 12th, 2008 at 10:45 am
My cats are FODA — Felines of the Deaf Adult.
July 12th, 2008 at 11:01 am
It is sad to see how the deaf community here is being damaged by the deafhood movement. It is fairly eerie when you visit England (the home of the author of Deafhood) and find out that their deaf leaders and communities are totally unaware of this concept, what is going on here? Is poison being exported from England to the US? Did Paddy Ladd move here after failing in England? These questions must be answered as the deaf community in England seem to be open and there seem to be no divisions there.
July 12th, 2008 at 11:07 am
Cindy #65 above hit the point as she says that Paddy was AMUSED when he found out that the book was turned into workshops and a movement! So it was not exported but taken and possibly twisted by certain leaders?
July 12th, 2008 at 11:45 am
Quiet Man and Candy,
Paddy is in regular contact with the 3 Deafhood workshop presenters. At the Deafhood workshops at the 2006 NAD convention, DE read a message from Paddy basically affirming the American movement and showing support. I was there, witnessing those words. I also saw part of the email another time. I chatted with Paddy briefly *in person* a while back after he observed my class for his next book, and he was pleased with what they were doing.
Have either of you had these opportunities? If not, I’d suggest you be more careful about your assumptions.
July 12th, 2008 at 12:18 pm
Paddy said WARNING. Don’t go deep in Deafhood end. What does it mean??
Beware of Deaf cults!
July 12th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
Excellent, even more divided we are now than ever. Good job yall!
I’m amused by all cheap talks the naysayers have been saying about the Deaf community while what they have been contributing to our community is really nothing, but rather, they have been sitting around behind their computer monitors whining, moaning and bitching against those among us. They called those as “speaking up.” Amusing.
Reading the comments in this blog and other blogs, those naysayers have gone farther by adding degrading comments about us, our intelligence and our quality of life based on stereotypes. Ahh, nothing is new.
I do not feel that the “leaders” really need to respond to those non-constructive, or if the naysayers believed that they are constructive, then those are always negative criticism but they never contribute their time to DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. So, they do not need to respond to you all. Just keep on with actions.
July 12th, 2008 at 1:06 pm
It’s interesting to note that all of people below are oralists:
1. Alan Hurtwitz - president & dean NTID
2. Harvey Corson - provost GU & supt ASD, LSD
3. Roslyn Rosen - provost & VP GU, Director CSUN
4. Steve Weiner - provost & dean GU
5. Michael Moore - interim provost GU
6. Jane Fernandes - president & provost GU,
president UNC (July 1, 2008)
7. Nancy Bloch - executive director NAD
8. Bobbie Beth Scoggins - president NAD
9. Robert Davila - Reagan appointed him in the
US Dept of Education, vice president NTID,
president GU
10. Ramon Rodriquez - top position in US Dept of
Education
So let’s hope to see a native Signer become president or provost!!!!!
July 12th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
Brewster, I am only asking for transparency. As concerned empowered Deaf people, we only want to clear up the confusion as it keeps sending mixed messages. It doesn’t mean we want to see DBC torn down. Why should I? It’s our baby.. we helped establish it before it was hijacked.
Anon, aren’t Steve Weiner and Bobbie Bath native signers? They are also from Deaf families. I see some from Deaf families, like Roslyn Rosen.
July 12th, 2008 at 1:17 pm
Diane, it was a friendly reader who alerted me to these messages. I didn’t realize the content, so once I was informed, I deleted them promptly.
July 12th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
Mishka, as an ex-founding member of DBC, you gotta reap what you have sowed, suffice to say.
You had good intentions for DBC in the beginning but, unfortunately, Deafhood proponents have turned it into an undisciplined beast shunning criticism and promoting cronyism, based on what I’d read and being impressed so far. If the current DBC leadership continues to remain stubborn and unhelpful with your desire to improve and empower the Deaf community under DBC’s original guidelines, then, perhaps, you may have to take a tough, decisive action to deal with its very existence.
I’d realized my suggestion may seem unorthodox and shocking to you, but what other solutions have you proposed to alleviate the troubles you have with DBC’s leadership, all the while they remained undaunted by your criticism? Absolutely, no one or no organization is above criticism but DBC’s leadership seem to think otherwise.
Please let’s dispense with the notion of an organization being described as a “baby”. It is not and never a living thing. Organizations can be changed by dissolving, reforming or abolished outright by members involved, including the living founders themselves.
July 12th, 2008 at 2:13 pm
Rob,
You’ve chosen to only listen to one side of the story. This has become a witch hunt, and you’ve gleefully jumped onto the bandwagon.
And, no, MZ, I’m not referring to you - most of the people expressing concern about this virtual lynching aren’t talking about you - it’s some of the commenters and bloggers/vloggers. Please don’t take this so personally. Smile.
July 12th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
Well, it’s like you said to me, MZ, in your reply to me, #59, that DBC belongs to its leaders and members.
It’s their “baby” and it’s time it grew up to be answerable to its members. After all, an organization exists primarily on its membership and the funds from its members. If DBC leadership doesn’t follow thru on the momentum built from the Milwaukee Conference and support the state chapters, then we know what will happen.
July 12th, 2008 at 2:43 pm
Hmmm… if Paddy Ladd is in constant contact with Deafhood Foundation then he must be in mutual agreement with Deafhood Foundation’s radical views including Deafness vs Deafhood philosophy, which preaches radical views.
If so, I and many others will not subscribe to their views. I will post a new blog and explain why Deafhood Foundation painted false picture / information on the Deafness term. The term, Deafness is being stomped on and bashed in order to promote Deafhood as a positive term. Deafhood’s definition for Deafness, as seen in DBC’s powerpoint presentation is a myth, at best. It has no merits and I will explain why in my next blog.
July 12th, 2008 at 3:35 pm
Dr Hocokan,
I’ve suspected for a while now that you’re placing your own interpretation on the situation, and your last comment proves it.
Jenny said “in regular contact,” and you interpreted that to mean “constant” with no basis at all. That throws everything you’ve said into question.
I rest my case.
July 12th, 2008 at 3:36 pm
Don’t forget he is not a “Dr.”
July 12th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
Sad. As I predicted, attempts to smear the character of Dr. Hocokan are being made. He repeatedly said that’s his middle name. There was never an attempt to deceive the public about his middle name, like Another Observer tries to imply.
Observer, regularly and constantly are almost similar, yet you are nitpicking on the semantics of the words in a ridiculous attempt to damage the credibility of another person. How do you think people see this coming from DBC people and members?
I read this AIM. It’s very bad. [the link has been removed. I do not want to see anyone fired for their personal beliefs.]
I cannot condone this kind of conduct. It’s why I left, but it had become much worse.
It’s very sad.
July 12th, 2008 at 4:49 pm
I know, Mishka.
This is a small community.
My heavily heart goes to the majority of the hearing (and deaf) parents of deaf babies and the entire hearing relatives and friends.
Full of betrayal.
July 12th, 2008 at 4:53 pm
Mishka Zena,
You still have not answered my question below. If you mentioned this and that and this and that, it is you who owe an explanation to us. It is the duty of a writer to explain to a reader. If you do not want any reader to know that DBC core members used initimation tactics, you should omit this. Now everybody wants to know why you mentioned the intimidation tactics and then witheheld the explanation. A true journalist invariably owes an explanation to a reader.
Jean Boutcher Says:
July 11th, 2008 at 10:58 pm
Mishka Zena wrote in her blogpost:
<Instead of being willing to discuss this with the concerned members of the Deaf Community, they attacked those who gave them constructive feedback, using intimidation tactics and utilizing some of theirs followers to speak up for them.”
I can feel your concerns. What intimidation tactics did they utilise? DBC is neither a fraternity nor a sorority; rather, it is an organisation.
July 12th, 2008 at 5:31 pm
I don’t know what to say.
I did come into clash with John Egbert because of my online friendship with Paotie and MikeM last year. We kind of made peace with each other a short time ago. I sensed that he was a good man who wanted to make everything work out.
I knew Barb personally… we were good friends in Rochester, NY, and of course, she was against CI back then… that has not changed and it was her opinion which I respected. She can be feisty sometimes and she is very smart, but she has a great heart. She never backtalked to anyone as far as I know, from Rochester, NY. She was very cool with my son who was one of her son’s good friends… my son whose first language is English. I had some good times with her. When she fell in love with Steve Longo three or four years ago, of course, she got to meet and to spend more time with the Bay area people such as DE and Ella and GG. Right or wrong… neither. Just the way it happened and I was happy for her to have some happiness in her life.
Tami… we emailed briefly but then my struggle for getting the dual enrollment for my son to be approved took up a lot of my attention, so I more or less ceased communicating with her. From what I was told by many people, she was great and very kind and had NOTHING against deaf children who could talk.
As for DE and Ella… I sense that they invested a lot of time in Deafhood, so understandably they’d fight skin and teeth for it and they made no secret of it. There are a lot of things that we don’t know… and that the conversations, recorded, could be easily twisted around and that the people meant differently, etc.
I am stepping away now… Take care.
July 12th, 2008 at 5:33 pm
I am finally catching up today and I am really truly, truly, truly upset and in utter disgust and shock.
Especially after reading the conversation files. This was totally unprofessional of them. They cannot separate personal and business meetings.
My respect for them is completely gone with their jokes that are totally uncalled for and for who they REALLY are.
That deafhood workshop I attended two years ago?
That was just bullshit. It is worthless to me now.
I am in complete shock right now…
July 12th, 2008 at 5:43 pm
Jean I explained at the end of the post. Go back and read it. Also check DE’s comment at Patti’s blog where he bashed Amy, mocking and jeering at her. By the way, I am a blogger who reports. I am not a bona fide reporter working for a company. Oranges and apples.
Karen, I understand. They are not the same people I knew.
I cannot condone that kind of talk, even in joking. Violent rampage? Strangling? That is so sick
screening out people who drill into their children’s heads?
not good.
July 12th, 2008 at 5:46 pm
*sigh*
I am washing my hands off of DBC and Deafhood.
July 12th, 2008 at 5:54 pm
Karen and Iammine!
Me too. I no longer recognize the founders and members of the DBC.
Frankly, I am truly glad that I did not attend the deafhood. I don’t consider myself to be a “deaf-hood.”
Thank G*d.
July 12th, 2008 at 5:57 pm
:o)
I did attend the workshop but I did not get wowed by it… instead it immediately raised questions and concerns about the way the trio held hearing people responsible for “colonization” of deaf people, a negative light. My other friend who went to the workshop with me shared the similar concerns also. But both of us acknowledged that it was a good enpowering workshop, nothing more.
July 12th, 2008 at 5:58 pm
Sounds like DH and DBC are falling apart? Who is DE?
July 12th, 2008 at 6:00 pm
Jean Boutcher,
Correct me if I’m wrong, I thought DBC was a coalition, not an organization?
If that’s so, I should go ahead and research the true differences between the two.
-Ben
July 12th, 2008 at 6:01 pm
DE is just a clown himself…young and all that…Barry did throw in two encouraging responses…one was “ha ha funny DE” about selling their bodies (ears)….all very humorous reading to me except for that violent rampage at the Hilton comment by DE. There is a lot we don’t know plus we are getting only what Barry has and wants to show us.
July 12th, 2008 at 6:08 pm
Hi WG… I am still in shock and my mind is running at 100 miles per hour.
I was actually wow’d by the Deafhood workshop, even though there were some things I disagreed with. I left feeling very good and very hopeful for the Deaf Community being united.
I was tired of labels, in-fighting, and so on.
I had the pleasure of chatting with DE outside and Ella inside, too. Very smart and friendly people with strong passion for the Deaf Community.
I feel betrayed big time. The whole thing is a lie.
I am so done here.
I want nothing to do with DBC or Deafhood.
I will support ASL Think Tank or a new movement who truly wants to educate the benefits of ASL and bi-bi - regardless of other options added.
But I will be very cautious next time…
July 12th, 2008 at 6:09 pm
DE is David Eberwein (has a deaf sister who has been helping him edit the DBC vlogs). He is a teacher at CSD (either at the Fremont or Riverside campuses).
I pity John Egbert….
July 12th, 2008 at 6:16 pm
MZ, they might be kidding around to lighten up the seriousness of AIM meeting. But from reading the AIM dialogue, it was mostly about business. I am sure that President or one or two cabinet members would joke around once a while, poking fun at Russia or Islam countries before resuming business.
I am not defending… I am just pointing the possibility out…
July 12th, 2008 at 6:17 pm
Yes, Iammine.
I am doing this for the sake of the majority of the hearing (and deaf) parents of the babies, relatives and friends.
I know how it is…..it’s about the mutual and political respect.
However, DBC and its crews have betrayed the deaf community.
July 12th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
How would you feel if someone joke about N####r?
I will never joke about violence. If someone talks like that, I would tell them to cease and detest. This is a formal business meeting.
July 12th, 2008 at 6:23 pm
Yeah, yeah.. I know.
The problem with me is that I tend to rationalize. I apologize.
July 12th, 2008 at 6:25 pm
Karen, it’s ok. It’s a lot for people to digest at once. Some people may have a hard time with this kind of conversation.
July 12th, 2008 at 6:46 pm
I’m still reeling from that AIM conversation. I still can’t get over the fact that they’re acting a bit more extreme and “cult-ish”.
Just think the scene in the restaurant, they’d talk like that within earshot of the hearing parents of deaf babies. How would they react like that? Sick? Disgusted? Angry? Confused? Disillusion? You bet.
That’s damn shame.
Misha
July 12th, 2008 at 6:52 pm
I’m really curious, the original DBC founders/members that started the coaltion…how did these DH core members or ASL powerhouse or whatever it is they are called, came into the picture? Did they invite themselves or were they asked to join? how did that go about?
July 12th, 2008 at 6:56 pm
MishkaZena, wrong. Regular contact could mean anywhere from daily to monthly/quarterly. Since someone else was the one who said that, I have no way of knowing how frequent the contact actually is. And it’s not a smear on DR Hocokan - just pointing out that he’s not sticking to what was actually said… and I suspect it’s not the first time.
July 12th, 2008 at 7:15 pm
Wow Mishka,
You said “cult?”
Like I said in another blog–I’m so tempted to make a VP call to certain someone who I know is close to Ella and pass on a message…
Since she refuses to respond to anything–I’d like to see how she responds to that. I am just as well connected as she is.
I’ve played nice, kept this cleanly in public without resorting to what strings I could pull as an “insider” of the Deaf community. I feel this is an unfair advantage on my part; but then again, it might be a good resource to use every now and then.
uhm. if this gets worse or I get even more pissed, whichever comes first–I think I might do just that.
Ben
July 12th, 2008 at 7:19 pm
I no longer know Barb, John, and Tami. They are not the same people I knew. I am concerned for them.
Candy, they were in the same group from the beginning. But they weren’t like that at the beginning.
[Clarification: I’m talking about the strong groupthink atmosphere inside the core DBC team only, not the DBC itself and not the Deafhood workshops]
July 12th, 2008 at 7:24 pm
Forgot to add something. I’m not a DBC member, I’m a conscentious objector to this witch hunt and this flying up into the boughs.
Hocokan tried to claim that the DBC core team is against CI and saying awful things. Well, I read that AIM thing he posted too. Only one person was saying that kind of stuff. And it ignores the fact that he probably felt safe doing that with a trusted group. Whether anyone feels that was right or wrong, the point I’m making is that Hocky exaggerated and made things sound worse than they are by saying “the core committee said…” when it’s not true. Capisce?
July 12th, 2008 at 7:27 pm
Your opinion is shared by many. With their use of terminology like “high priestess,” “Our Father..” I’m more inclined to say it seems less and less of an opinion.
I figured you’re not the one to lose faith so easily–perhaps they’ll come around. (Actually now I’m asking myself why I’m defending them after fighting them for so long, uhmph.
maybe i do like to argue for the sake of argument? uhm. lol)
From them, each and every one of them, a public apology is needed and DBC needs new set of leaders if they’re to recover from this.
-Ben
July 12th, 2008 at 7:29 pm
Observer, the damage had already been done.
It’s all documented.
There is no witch hunt. Now we know where they really stand.
I wonder how people would defend them, after reading these comments. Their conduct are unacceptable.
It’s a very sad day.
July 12th, 2008 at 7:31 pm
Actually, Observer, the WHOLE core members share the same sentiments. If you observe their comments on other public forums and blogs/vlogs, you will see that bias.
In a professional meeting, racism (even in a joking manner) will be reprimanded. They were not. It was in their convo that it was one of their intentions to get rid of AGBell. Their press release supports that.
This isn’t a witchhunt. We’re not adding supporters into this–the leaders’ numbers did not increase. This isn’t a hunt against deafhood supporters or DBC supporters. Just the leaders, the accountable parties.
-ben
July 12th, 2008 at 7:36 pm
Now I’m on moderation? What did I do? Where did I say anything that was a personal attack? This isn’t very fair. I respected you for allowing freedom of speech, as long as basic principles of respect were followed. All of my comments have discussed ideas, concepts, and events, not individuals (except to point out who said what). I fail to understand your moderation policy. Please elucidate. Thanks.
July 12th, 2008 at 7:37 pm
Ben Vess:
Coalition means a TEMPORARY ALLIANCE.
July 12th, 2008 at 7:37 pm
Barry did say “ha ha funny DE” about selling bodies (ears)…agree with you, observer. DE already has a reputation of being a “clown”….a jokester
July 12th, 2008 at 7:51 pm
Jean,
So DBC is temporary? Perhaps, its time is up? It appears that DBC’s alliances are hurting them more than helping.
I think there should be an organization in place of a coalition and accountability be considered a priority.
-Ben
July 12th, 2008 at 7:52 pm
Oh damn, did I do something wrong? My comments are being moderated…
let’s be nice, people. C’mon, don’t make this harder on mishka…having to moderate this.
-Ben
July 12th, 2008 at 7:57 pm
If it’s temporary, then, they’re keeping fighting until they wins.
Just like Iraq, USA was with Alliances until Iraq gets the Sovereignty.
July 12th, 2008 at 8:30 pm
Was John Egbert an ex-Oralist? Is he the one who runs the DBC? Do you think it has to do with the Crab Theory?
Observer? Is he Oscar or a diffferent guy?
Bouyea #45 … No it is not my nickname Sweetmine in the other Deaf forum. Smile.
A lot to read here.
July 12th, 2008 at 9:05 pm
White Ghost,
I’m going to go ahead and make a comparison: perhaps, Mishka would moderate this one…
I call Ella the “Nero” of the deaf community. She is over there somewhere playing her fiddle while “Rome,” the deaf community is burning down. Come to think of it, she started the fire and dares to play the fiddle as all of Rome goes down in flames.
The Romans won’t take this sitting down. History has proven that much.
-Ben
July 12th, 2008 at 9:49 pm
I felt it was necessary to make a comment here.
I know I am being viewed under a completely different light after I’ve begun to spill the beans. Some people thought I made things up. It is only a beginning as I only exposed few emails I had out of 500 emails in my files and only one AIM meeting out of eleven that I have in my records. It is going to take me a while to go through everything and expose every indications of sheer ignorance and incompetence.
Several people asked if I was going to spill the entire pot of beans or expose just enough to prove that I was in fact there in middle of DBC Core Group and expose their radical views. I did not know the answer to their questions because I don’t believe in doing anything with half heart. I got into DBC with full heart and I really expected to contribute towards the cause.
However, wisdom tells me one has to know where to stop and when. One can not further destroy what has already been destroyed. That is where it become senseless. There comes a point when we all will know when to stop and realize what is more important here. In this case it is sign language for deaf babies. Bilingualism means respect and recognization for both languages with equal footings and air time. We all know ASL are introduced first but never for a moment think that English language is the lesser half or unequal. As in marriage these two go in together on equality basis, which generate success and fruits.
DBC’s corrupted and self-appointed leaders are human beings too. They do make mistakes. I am not focused on their mistakes as human beings. I make mistakes too. Everybody does and that is why we need to know when to apologize for something and seek forgiveness. There is no greater gift than forgiveness. In my case I waited for DBC’s leader to explain why they did something like that to me and I waited for an apology. It never came. I was ready to forgive them without being asked to until I learned that there were other victims (former DBC founding members) before me. Then something inside told me to make a firm stance to restore integrity to its’ rightful place so that there will be no further victims after me.
I have absolutely nothing to gain from it. Instead I had so much to give and contribute. I planned to donate one of my company’s royalty arrangement to support the cause. You can imagine my disappointment when I witnessed greed, corruption and ignorance in name of bilingualism and Deaf babies. Leader of Deafhood Foundation wanted it more than they wanted it for DBC. That told me plenty. It told me that their hearts were not in the right place. I withdrew my offer and contributed my time instead, as a strategist to help them improve and take them where the needed to go. I even remained involved, behind the screen and helped Kristen with State Chapter Kit up until the evening before the conference. Why? I BELIEVE IN THE CAUSE. This much should be clear to everybody.
However these people claim to be leaders. They need to be mindful of highest possible standard. Ethics. Integrity. Respect for all people regardless of their backgrounds. These people are not bad or evil. They made mistakes, yes and that is when we all learn the difference between bad leadership and good leadership. Not everybody are suited for leadership posts. DBC’s leaders are classic example of bad leadership. They are good people but yet they make bad leaders.
They need to step down, release DBC back to the people. They need to let people elect leaders who will be held accountable to them. Anytime there is a leader that is not held accountable to the people then corruption will almost surface. Wisdom tells me that our greatest test is when nobody’s looking.
The main thing is we never lost our core belief, that of sign language for deaf babies. We all are fighting for the same thing. The current leaders have to go. They need to be replace with capable leaders who not only know the meaning of integrity, ethics, accountability and respect but practices it. Leader(s) that walk the talk.
July 12th, 2008 at 10:57 pm
Oh geez! This is so witch hunt! I am so disgusted by exploitation some of you attempted to use by painting wrong pictures.
First of all, those AIM conversations should really have stayed on the inside, not meant to be shared to the outside. Now, the world knows that Barry, a.k.a DR Hocokan, is not to be trusted. For any organizations, groups,