Comments on: Sweet Nothing In My Ear and Forum http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2008/04/03/sweet-nothing-in-my-ear-and-forum/ Endless Pondering Wed, 08 Oct 2008 03:23:49 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.2 By: ericacamp http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2008/04/03/sweet-nothing-in-my-ear-and-forum/#comment-61249 ericacamp Mon, 21 Apr 2008 17:15:31 +0000 http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2008/04/03/sweet-nothing-in-my-ear-and-forum/#comment-61249 I think CI's can be beneficial as far as helping with speech and gaining access to environmental sounds... I am not against them. However, hearing parents must remember that speech is not language and signing still should be used along with auditory and speech training especially during the first few years of life. In my profession (Professional interpreter and teacher of ASL, MA in Special Education)I have found that most deaf kids do poor in school not because of CI's or lack thereof, but because the parents think CI's or hearing aids are enough and focus so much on speaking that they do not bother to learn ASL and sign IN THE HOME! This is a parental problem and I blame many "experts" who spew out that by signing to a CI child you will be hindering their ability to learn how to speak and "listen". Age birth-5 years are the most critical and for anyone who has ever studied language acquisition...here is a simplified version. There are dendrites in your brain that must be stimulated in order to develop and mature. These dendrites in the language part of the brain need to be stimulated with FULL language (either visually or auditorally).The key word here is FULL. If there is any hearing loss whatsoever then the child is not gaining access to FULL auditory language. CI's or hearing aides do not give a deaf person FULL language through their ears. They need the FULL language through the eyes to stimulate the dendrites and have a normal developing language part of the brain. If the dendrites are not stimulated FULLY then they do not continue to grow. Now you have a child with language delay, which is really the underlying disability of being deaf that is never put down on an IEP, and often ignored, and becomes almost impossible to overcome. Just throwing a deaf kid into a signing environment or with an interpreter after years of not signing does not make everything okay. You need early intervention from birth and parents willing and devoted to taking the time to learn ASL, sign at home, and then you will have deaf kids reading and writing at much higher levels.They will learn Written English as a second language taught from their first: ASL. You cannot learn a second language without a first, and you cannot learn a first and be fluent in that language if you do not have FULL access to it from birth. The speech and auditory training can be done at the same time, but is secondary only after this first crucial step has been achieved. All of this can be done whether you implant or not, aided or not. And I have seen successful college educated Deaf people, but most of them either had Deaf parents who signed from day one, or hearing parents who signed AT HOME and continued to learn ASL throughout their child's life, and not just give up learning when the child started kindergarten (as most do). Many educated Deaf people I have met all have different degrees of hearing loss. Some use aides, some have CI's and some use no aides at all. Some speak very well , some do not speak one word. The point: Speech is secondary to leading a normal life. You do not need to speak to be able to think and understand and reason. THAT is what is the most important when raising a Deaf child. Make sure the brain is developing properly so you can raise a healthy, vibrant, adult who can think abstractly and can reason intellectually. Speech or not! I think CI’s can be beneficial as far as helping with speech and gaining access to environmental sounds… I am not against them. However, hearing parents must remember that speech is not language and signing still should be used along with auditory and speech training especially during the first few years of life. In my profession (Professional interpreter and teacher of ASL, MA in Special Education)I have found that most deaf kids do poor in school not because of CI’s or lack thereof, but because the parents think CI’s or hearing aids are enough and focus so much on speaking that they do not bother to learn ASL and sign IN THE HOME! This is a parental problem and I blame many “experts” who spew out that by signing to a CI child you will be hindering their ability to learn how to speak and “listen”. Age birth-5 years are the most critical and for anyone who has ever studied language acquisition…here is a simplified version. There are dendrites in your brain that must be stimulated in order to develop and mature. These dendrites in the language part of the brain need to be stimulated with FULL language (either visually or auditorally).The key word here is FULL. If there is any hearing loss whatsoever then the child is not gaining access to FULL auditory language. CI’s or hearing aides do not give a deaf person FULL language through their ears. They need the FULL language through the eyes to stimulate the dendrites and have a normal developing language part of the brain. If the dendrites are not stimulated FULLY then they do not continue to grow. Now you have a child with language delay, which is really the underlying disability of being deaf that is never put down on an IEP, and often ignored, and becomes almost impossible to overcome. Just throwing a deaf kid into a signing environment or with an interpreter after years of not signing does not make everything okay. You need early intervention from birth and parents willing and devoted to taking the time to learn ASL, sign at home, and then you will have deaf kids reading and writing at much higher levels.They will learn Written English as a second language taught from their first: ASL. You cannot learn a second language without a first, and you cannot learn a first and be fluent in that language if you do not have FULL access to it from birth. The speech and auditory training can be done at the same time, but is secondary only after this first crucial step has been achieved. All of this can be done whether you implant or not, aided or not. And I have seen successful college educated Deaf people, but most of them either had Deaf parents who signed from day one, or hearing parents who signed AT HOME and continued to learn ASL throughout their child’s life, and not just give up learning when the child started kindergarten (as most do). Many educated Deaf people I have met all have different degrees of hearing loss. Some use aides, some have CI’s and some use no aides at all. Some speak very well , some do not speak one word. The point: Speech is secondary to leading a normal life. You do not need to speak to be able to think and understand and reason. THAT is what is the most important when raising a Deaf child. Make sure the brain is developing properly so you can raise a healthy, vibrant, adult who can think abstractly and can reason intellectually. Speech or not!

]]> By: sweet nothing in my ear http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2008/04/03/sweet-nothing-in-my-ear-and-forum/#comment-61237 sweet nothing in my ear Sun, 20 Apr 2008 19:04:24 +0000 http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2008/04/03/sweet-nothing-in-my-ear-and-forum/#comment-61237 [...] [...] […] […]

]]> By: Stanelle http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2008/04/03/sweet-nothing-in-my-ear-and-forum/#comment-61089 Stanelle Thu, 10 Apr 2008 16:40:13 +0000 http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2008/04/03/sweet-nothing-in-my-ear-and-forum/#comment-61089 Hmmmmph! I can back up Miska's statements...# 64... about the old "oral" programs not being willing to admit to their "failures,"..the students that just couldn't "get" the old oral training!! In Ohio,..twenty some years ago,,..quite a few of the "oral rejects"...kids,..who didn't work out in the oral training programs in public schools,..were put into state hospitals for the mentally retarded! Some friends of mine and I made careers out of picking those "oral rejects" out of those hospitals for the insane and mentally retarded and teaching those poor kids some form of language,..preferably ASL or signed English,..any form of communication,..and teaching those poor deaf kids some form of language! Any form of language, whether it was spoken language or whether it was signed language!! As I have said online many times,..my hands are covered with human bite marks,..bite marks made by my "students,"..who were so terroized and traumatized by their experiences in "oral" education that biting and scratching and acting more like little animals than human deaf children,..wwere the only ways that those poor kids could express their frustration!! So what are folks going to do with the kids, who don't work out in CI training? Don't send them to folks like me!! I am too old to teach so called "educational failures,.." who didn't learn any kind of language though "oral" training programs and who are denied language training because of some "new" experimental break-throughs,"..which are supposed to turn deaf kids into pseudo-hearing kids. A deaf kid is still a deaf kid when the C.I. is turned off and i do believe that a deaf child should have ASL training at the earliest possible point in their lives so that the child can learn, naturally,..visually,..ANY form of language!! No mechanical readjustment of a deaf kid's physique with a C.I. will turn that kid into a 100% certified Hearing kid. The deaf child will still be deaf when the C.I. is turned off! That is just my opinion!! And I do believe that the kids,..who were given C.I. implants,..which didn't work out,..will be "hidden..or not admitted to by the folks, who are trying to sell the C.I.'s to the Hearing parents of deaf children. I saw the same thing happening with to the parents and children in the old oral programs!! Under CERTAIN circumstances,...I am for CI's being given to CERTAIN CHILDREN WITH CERTAIN TYPES OF HEARING LOSS. I would NEVER say to a parent, who just found out that their one or two year old child was deaf,..that a CI would be a 100% promise that the CI could "turn the deaf child into a 100% certifed hearing child!! That would be an out and out LIE! I don't care what type of training program that the child is exposed to!! (Goes off study the bite marks on the backs of my heands and wondering when folks, who God gave deaf children to will just admit that their child is deaf and needs to learn a language in the way that is most natural to the child!!) Hmmmmph! I can back up Miska’s statements…# 64… about the old “oral” programs not being willing to admit to their “failures,”..the students that just couldn’t “get” the old oral training!!

In Ohio,..twenty some years ago,,..quite a few of the “oral rejects”…kids,..who didn’t work out in the oral training programs in public schools,..were put into state hospitals for the mentally retarded!

Some friends of mine and I made careers out of picking those “oral rejects” out of those hospitals for the insane and mentally retarded and teaching those poor kids some form of language,..preferably ASL or signed English,..any form of communication,..and teaching those poor deaf kids some form of language!

Any form of language, whether it was spoken language or whether it was signed language!! As I have said online many times,..my hands are covered with human bite marks,..bite marks made by my “students,”..who were so terroized and traumatized by their experiences in “oral” education that biting and scratching and acting more like little animals than human deaf children,..wwere the only ways that those poor kids could express their frustration!!

So what are folks going to do with the kids, who don’t work out in CI training? Don’t send them to folks like me!! I am too old to teach so called “educational failures,..” who didn’t learn any kind of language though “oral” training programs and who are denied language training because of some “new” experimental break-throughs,”..which are supposed to turn deaf kids into pseudo-hearing kids.

A deaf kid is still a deaf kid when the C.I. is turned off and i do believe that a deaf child should have ASL training at the earliest possible point in their lives so that the child can learn, naturally,..visually,..ANY form of language!! No mechanical readjustment of a deaf kid’s physique with a C.I. will turn that kid into a 100% certified Hearing kid. The deaf child will still be deaf when the C.I. is turned off! That is just my opinion!!

And I do believe that the kids,..who were given C.I. implants,..which didn’t work out,..will be “hidden..or not admitted to by the folks, who are trying to sell the C.I.’s to the Hearing parents of deaf children. I saw the same thing happening with to the parents and children in the old oral programs!!

Under CERTAIN circumstances,…I am for CI’s being given to CERTAIN CHILDREN WITH CERTAIN TYPES OF HEARING LOSS. I would NEVER say to a parent, who just found out that their one or two year old child was deaf,..that a CI would be a 100% promise that the CI could “turn the deaf child into a 100% certifed hearing child!! That would be an out and out LIE! I don’t care what type of training program that the child is exposed to!!

(Goes off study the bite marks on the backs of my heands and wondering when folks, who God gave deaf children to will just admit that their child is deaf and needs to learn a language in the way that is most natural to the child!!)

]]> By: Brian Riley http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2008/04/03/sweet-nothing-in-my-ear-and-forum/#comment-61036 Brian Riley Mon, 07 Apr 2008 21:36:53 +0000 http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2008/04/03/sweet-nothing-in-my-ear-and-forum/#comment-61036 None of the papers in #49 claim that deaf children with CI's have "full access" to hearing. If that were true, then these kids could hear 100% of all sounds and would behave like hearing children. Some of the research is clearly biased, because it makes no distinction between ASL and other types of signing. None of the papers in #49 claim that deaf children with CI’s have “full access” to hearing. If that were true, then these kids could hear 100% of all sounds and would behave like hearing children.

Some of the research is clearly biased, because it makes no distinction between ASL and other types of signing.

]]> By: Mishka Zena http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2008/04/03/sweet-nothing-in-my-ear-and-forum/#comment-61033 Mishka Zena Mon, 07 Apr 2008 21:12:00 +0000 http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2008/04/03/sweet-nothing-in-my-ear-and-forum/#comment-61033 By the way, I don't appreciate your insinuations. If I am truly not neutral, I won't be publishing your comments along with others, including their propaganda. It's already obvious not only are you working with others, too, but that you appear to be invested in promoting cochlear implants. What's more, the silence from the c.i. proponents about Susanna's quote is still deafening since it was published some months ago. It's very telling that there has been no universal condemnation among the c.i. proponent regarding Susanna's deceit with the parents exploring the possibility of cochlear implants for their deaf kids. This reinforces the Deaf Community's assertions of cover-ups with cochlear implants failures. By the way, I don’t appreciate your insinuations. If I am truly not neutral, I won’t be publishing your comments along with others, including their propaganda. It’s already obvious not only are you working with others, too, but that you appear to be invested in promoting cochlear implants.

What’s more, the silence from the c.i. proponents about Susanna’s quote is still deafening since it was published some months ago. It’s very telling that there has been no universal condemnation among the c.i. proponent regarding Susanna’s deceit with the parents exploring the possibility of cochlear implants for their deaf kids.

This reinforces the Deaf Community’s assertions of cover-ups with cochlear implants failures.

]]> By: love to knit http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2008/04/03/sweet-nothing-in-my-ear-and-forum/#comment-61032 love to knit Mon, 07 Apr 2008 21:08:00 +0000 http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2008/04/03/sweet-nothing-in-my-ear-and-forum/#comment-61032 Thanks for the data in #49 and thanks to justamom for providing it. Thanks for the data in #49 and thanks to justamom for providing it.

]]> By: Mishka Zena http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2008/04/03/sweet-nothing-in-my-ear-and-forum/#comment-61031 Mishka Zena Mon, 07 Apr 2008 20:45:53 +0000 http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2008/04/03/sweet-nothing-in-my-ear-and-forum/#comment-61031 It seems you didn't understand me when I stated that the data had already been published. It is at #49. It seems you didn’t understand me when I stated that the data had already been published. It is at #49.

]]> By: love to knit http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2008/04/03/sweet-nothing-in-my-ear-and-forum/#comment-61030 love to knit Mon, 07 Apr 2008 20:42:17 +0000 http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2008/04/03/sweet-nothing-in-my-ear-and-forum/#comment-61030 First, thanks for your reply and I hope you feel better soon. Again, thanks and I will look forward to seeing the data soon. First, thanks for your reply and I hope you feel better soon.

Again, thanks and I will look forward to seeing the data soon.

]]> By: Mishka Zena http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2008/04/03/sweet-nothing-in-my-ear-and-forum/#comment-61029 Mishka Zena Mon, 07 Apr 2008 20:37:56 +0000 http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2008/04/03/sweet-nothing-in-my-ear-and-forum/#comment-61029 The data I've received have already been posted earlier. I've not had a chance to read the data as I'm not feeling well. I will when I feel better. The data I’ve received have already been posted earlier.

I’ve not had a chance to read the data as I’m not feeling well. I will when I feel better.

]]> By: love to knit http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2008/04/03/sweet-nothing-in-my-ear-and-forum/#comment-61028 love to knit Mon, 07 Apr 2008 20:01:32 +0000 http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2008/04/03/sweet-nothing-in-my-ear-and-forum/#comment-61028 Why won't you post the research from justamom? If you feel that the data is inaccurate then say so, but don't say 'Personally I am neutral about cochlear implants. I am interested in seeing the whole picture, not just one side, as so many people are prone to.' and then choose not to be. Why won’t you post the research from justamom? If you feel that the data is inaccurate then say so, but don’t say ‘Personally I am neutral about cochlear implants. I am interested in seeing the whole picture, not just one side, as so many people are prone to.’ and then choose not to be.

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