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	<title>Comments on: IVF Deaf Babies Not Welcome in America</title>
	<link>http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2007/11/26/ivf-deaf-babies-not-welcome-in-america/</link>
	<description>Endless Pondering</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 05:35:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Craig</title>
		<link>http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2007/11/26/ivf-deaf-babies-not-welcome-in-america/#comment-63797</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Aug 2008 13:32:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2007/11/26/ivf-deaf-babies-not-welcome-in-america/#comment-63797</guid>
		<description>Yonatan Says: 
November 30th, 2007 at 11:14 am 
Just would like an honest answer from you all:

I can see that many, not all, of the people here (myself included) are delighted to have a Deaf baby…but what if you had a baby that was both deaf and blind. Would you want to let that baby stay deafblind or would you work towards having his/her vision treated? Let’s go further: if a simple surgical procedure is all that is needed to fix this baby’s vision, would you go for it? The baby will still be Deaf but can see. Would you go for that or would you just let the baby be deafblind?

Just curious.
-----------------------------------
Hi Yonatan, would you believe that my partner and I (both of us being gay) would be so delighted and thrilled to have a Deafblind baby. We would have no problems with that at all... my parter is Deafblind himself and I am Deaf and my background is Deafblind relaying interpreting as well as being an social education. We had the experience of looking after a teen who was diagnosed with vision impairment, torrettes, and ADHD and even though the school found him very challenging. We loved every moment with this young man. Having a child, we would not take the option of correcting via medial intervention because the baby would be "normal" to us and of course we would expose our child to experience tactile environment, information and provide lots of educational imput as any parents and what better couple than us were sign langauge and Deafblind communication is our native language and we are so fluent with no hang ups.

Craig</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yonatan Says:<br />
November 30th, 2007 at 11:14 am<br />
Just would like an honest answer from you all:</p>
<p>I can see that many, not all, of the people here (myself included) are delighted to have a Deaf baby…but what if you had a baby that was both deaf and blind. Would you want to let that baby stay deafblind or would you work towards having his/her vision treated? Let’s go further: if a simple surgical procedure is all that is needed to fix this baby’s vision, would you go for it? The baby will still be Deaf but can see. Would you go for that or would you just let the baby be deafblind?</p>
<p>Just curious.<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;<br />
Hi Yonatan, would you believe that my partner and I (both of us being gay) would be so delighted and thrilled to have a Deafblind baby. We would have no problems with that at all&#8230; my parter is Deafblind himself and I am Deaf and my background is Deafblind relaying interpreting as well as being an social education. We had the experience of looking after a teen who was diagnosed with vision impairment, torrettes, and ADHD and even though the school found him very challenging. We loved every moment with this young man. Having a child, we would not take the option of correcting via medial intervention because the baby would be &#8220;normal&#8221; to us and of course we would expose our child to experience tactile environment, information and provide lots of educational imput as any parents and what better couple than us were sign langauge and Deafblind communication is our native language and we are so fluent with no hang ups.</p>
<p>Craig</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Giedd</title>
		<link>http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2007/11/26/ivf-deaf-babies-not-welcome-in-america/#comment-63472</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Giedd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Aug 2008 02:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2007/11/26/ivf-deaf-babies-not-welcome-in-america/#comment-63472</guid>
		<description>"When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent; I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent; I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out; I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent; I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out."
-Martin Niemöller

Note that in the 6 January 1946 speech Niemöller specifically mentioned "the sick, the so-called incurables"; see the translation by Harold Marcuse

“Euthanasia” Centers*map

T-4 Euthanasia Program

Cardinal Clemens von Galen speech Against Euthanasia Sunday, August 3, 1941

American Journal of Psychiatry January 2006. "Nazi Euthanasia of the Mentally Ill at Hadamar" by Rael D. Strous, M.D.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;When the Nazis came for the communists,<br />
I remained silent; I was not a communist.</p>
<p>When they locked up the social democrats,<br />
I remained silent; I was not a social democrat.</p>
<p>When they came for the trade unionists,<br />
I did not speak out; I was not a trade unionist.</p>
<p>When they came for the Jews,<br />
I remained silent; I wasn&#8217;t a Jew.</p>
<p>When they came for me,<br />
there was no one left to speak out.&#8221;<br />
-Martin Niemöller</p>
<p>Note that in the 6 January 1946 speech Niemöller specifically mentioned &#8220;the sick, the so-called incurables&#8221;; see the translation by Harold Marcuse</p>
<p>“Euthanasia” Centers*map</p>
<p>T-4 Euthanasia Program</p>
<p>Cardinal Clemens von Galen speech Against Euthanasia Sunday, August 3, 1941</p>
<p>American Journal of Psychiatry January 2006. &#8220;Nazi Euthanasia of the Mentally Ill at Hadamar&#8221; by Rael D. Strous, M.D.</p>
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		<title>By: HFEB: other places discussing Deaf Eugenics &#124; Stop Eugenics!</title>
		<link>http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2007/11/26/ivf-deaf-babies-not-welcome-in-america/#comment-53547</link>
		<dc:creator>HFEB: other places discussing Deaf Eugenics &#124; Stop Eugenics!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 22:57:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2007/11/26/ivf-deaf-babies-not-welcome-in-america/#comment-53547</guid>
		<description>[...] Mishka Zena: IVF Deaf Babies Not Welcome in America [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Mishka Zena: IVF Deaf Babies Not Welcome in America [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Yonatan</title>
		<link>http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2007/11/26/ivf-deaf-babies-not-welcome-in-america/#comment-53064</link>
		<dc:creator>Yonatan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2007 16:14:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2007/11/26/ivf-deaf-babies-not-welcome-in-america/#comment-53064</guid>
		<description>Just would like an honest answer from you all:

I can see that many, not all, of the people here (myself included) are delighted to have a Deaf baby...but what if you had a baby that was both deaf and blind. Would you want to let that baby stay deafblind or would you work towards having his/her vision treated? Let's go further: if a simple surgical procedure is all that is needed to fix this baby's vision, would you go for it? The baby will still be Deaf but can see. Would you go for that or would you just let the baby be deafblind?

Just curious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just would like an honest answer from you all:</p>
<p>I can see that many, not all, of the people here (myself included) are delighted to have a Deaf baby&#8230;but what if you had a baby that was both deaf and blind. Would you want to let that baby stay deafblind or would you work towards having his/her vision treated? Let&#8217;s go further: if a simple surgical procedure is all that is needed to fix this baby&#8217;s vision, would you go for it? The baby will still be Deaf but can see. Would you go for that or would you just let the baby be deafblind?</p>
<p>Just curious.</p>
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		<title>By: People of the Eye &#187; Blog Archive &#187; To Be Or Not To Be - Part I</title>
		<link>http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2007/11/26/ivf-deaf-babies-not-welcome-in-america/#comment-52908</link>
		<dc:creator>People of the Eye &#187; Blog Archive &#187; To Be Or Not To Be - Part I</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 22:30:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2007/11/26/ivf-deaf-babies-not-welcome-in-america/#comment-52908</guid>
		<description>[...] U.S. genetic selection discussion in Mishka Zena http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2007/11/26/ivf-deaf-babies-not-welcome-in-america/ [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] U.S. genetic selection discussion in Mishka Zena <a href="http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2007/11/26/ivf-deaf-babies-not-welcome-in-america/" rel="nofollow">http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2007/11/26/ivf-deaf-babies-not-welcome-in-america/</a> [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Mishka Zena</title>
		<link>http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2007/11/26/ivf-deaf-babies-not-welcome-in-america/#comment-52753</link>
		<dc:creator>Mishka Zena</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 04:48:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2007/11/26/ivf-deaf-babies-not-welcome-in-america/#comment-52753</guid>
		<description>By the way, anon, you totally misunderstood Jean! Please read more carefully.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way, anon, you totally misunderstood Jean! Please read more carefully.</p>
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		<title>By: Mishkazena</title>
		<link>http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2007/11/26/ivf-deaf-babies-not-welcome-in-america/#comment-52656</link>
		<dc:creator>Mishkazena</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2007 19:40:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2007/11/26/ivf-deaf-babies-not-welcome-in-america/#comment-52656</guid>
		<description>Anon, what you are saying is that it's ok to discriminate against Deaf people because they are too expensive for the society. Has humanity been reduced to dollars? 

While we are at that, lets throw out deaf babies, blind babies, developmentally challenged babies...Hmm, let's not stop at that. Lets kill these disabled children and adults. They cost too much money. Wait a min..  Muslim people? These terrorists, who have cost economic damages and massacre of innocent people, are usually from Muslim countries. Let's kill them all, too.  What about gay people? They are blamed for spreading AIDS, robbing lives and costing billions of dollars in treating this disease. Throw them out!   Don't forget the criminals in the prisons (dripping sarcasm)

Your eugenic thinking scare me. You have no humanity in your blood. People do have the right to be different.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anon, what you are saying is that it&#8217;s ok to discriminate against Deaf people because they are too expensive for the society. Has humanity been reduced to dollars? </p>
<p>While we are at that, lets throw out deaf babies, blind babies, developmentally challenged babies&#8230;Hmm, let&#8217;s not stop at that. Lets kill these disabled children and adults. They cost too much money. Wait a min..  Muslim people? These terrorists, who have cost economic damages and massacre of innocent people, are usually from Muslim countries. Let&#8217;s kill them all, too.  What about gay people? They are blamed for spreading AIDS, robbing lives and costing billions of dollars in treating this disease. Throw them out!   Don&#8217;t forget the criminals in the prisons (dripping sarcasm)</p>
<p>Your eugenic thinking scare me. You have no humanity in your blood. People do have the right to be different.</p>
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		<title>By: anonymous</title>
		<link>http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2007/11/26/ivf-deaf-babies-not-welcome-in-america/#comment-52478</link>
		<dc:creator>anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2007 04:15:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2007/11/26/ivf-deaf-babies-not-welcome-in-america/#comment-52478</guid>
		<description>Ms. Boutcher gets it right! Raising a deaf child is exhoribant. State schools require as much as ten times or more the funding to operate compared to the public schools. Interpreters cost a fortune. Finding a good paying job outside the deaf education system is notoriously difficult for the average deaf person. Cochlear implants cost 50K each and AVT thousands of dollars a year for at least five years. 

To wish for a deaf child who must struggle harder against the odds to achieve successfully in a hearing world is selfish. You expect the tax payers to foot the bill for your deaf child's expensive special education and interpreters? The financial responsibility should be 100% yours because you want a designer deaf baby!

Most of the IVF clinics are correct for rejecting the inane request for a deaf embryo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ms. Boutcher gets it right! Raising a deaf child is exhoribant. State schools require as much as ten times or more the funding to operate compared to the public schools. Interpreters cost a fortune. Finding a good paying job outside the deaf education system is notoriously difficult for the average deaf person. Cochlear implants cost 50K each and AVT thousands of dollars a year for at least five years. </p>
<p>To wish for a deaf child who must struggle harder against the odds to achieve successfully in a hearing world is selfish. You expect the tax payers to foot the bill for your deaf child&#8217;s expensive special education and interpreters? The financial responsibility should be 100% yours because you want a designer deaf baby!</p>
<p>Most of the IVF clinics are correct for rejecting the inane request for a deaf embryo.</p>
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		<title>By: Jean Boutcher</title>
		<link>http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2007/11/26/ivf-deaf-babies-not-welcome-in-america/#comment-52473</link>
		<dc:creator>Jean Boutcher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2007 03:38:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2007/11/26/ivf-deaf-babies-not-welcome-in-america/#comment-52473</guid>
		<description>Economics is invariably THE reason for eliminating the undesired traits. Employers and the federal government find deaf people economically burdenous because the accommodation of interpreting services, closed captioning, cochlear implant is preposterously expensive.

People living much longer to 80, 90, 100 means that the government will lose money. What does it mean when 30 million person are lazy or obsese? 

Cyclically, history repeats -- more than 70 years ago in the Hitlerian Germany!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Economics is invariably THE reason for eliminating the undesired traits. Employers and the federal government find deaf people economically burdenous because the accommodation of interpreting services, closed captioning, cochlear implant is preposterously expensive.</p>
<p>People living much longer to 80, 90, 100 means that the government will lose money. What does it mean when 30 million person are lazy or obsese? </p>
<p>Cyclically, history repeats &#8212; more than 70 years ago in the Hitlerian Germany!</p>
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		<title>By: A Deaf Pundit</title>
		<link>http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2007/11/26/ivf-deaf-babies-not-welcome-in-america/#comment-52432</link>
		<dc:creator>A Deaf Pundit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2007 00:48:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.deafread.com/mishkazena/2007/11/26/ivf-deaf-babies-not-welcome-in-america/#comment-52432</guid>
		<description>I think one angle we need to pursue with this is the quality of life. Our quality of life is NOT bad. It may be bad at times, but that's only because of our treatment from others. 

I agree, we need to form alliances with other minority groups over this. People may disagree with deaf people wanting to have deaf children, but this is not fatal, nor does it affect the quality of life as much as people think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think one angle we need to pursue with this is the quality of life. Our quality of life is NOT bad. It may be bad at times, but that&#8217;s only because of our treatment from others. </p>
<p>I agree, we need to form alliances with other minority groups over this. People may disagree with deaf people wanting to have deaf children, but this is not fatal, nor does it affect the quality of life as much as people think.</p>
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