John Egbert, Are you willing to listen to a crit??
This question is from a commenter last night on my post,
http://blog.deafread.com/egbertpress/2007/12/21/please-use-constructive-dialogue-in-deafreadcom/
Ann_C. on December 21st, 2007 at 10:09 pm
I’m going to use an analogy of a sorts, so bear with me here:
Some years ago I took up a class in portrait painting, and I thought I was progressing along rather nicely, as my fellow students and teacher encouraged me and gave me lots of kudos on my work in class.
Then at the end of the term my teacher said that he taught me everything he possibly knew and believed that I needed to take a more advanced class if I were to get better at this portrait painting. So, this teacher gave me the name of a “master” teacher who taught at an art academy and said that if I wanted to move forward on the painting to enroll in this master’s class if I was interested..
I enrolled in this class, much to my trepidation. However, I had enjoyed this other class and thought “Why not? See if I learn anything.”
I enrolled the following term in this master’s class and went to the class the first time it met. We had to paint a portrait of a live model’s face. Well, as anyone who has taken an art studio course, there is a critique, or crit for short, of the students’ work towards the end of the class. When the class got to my portrait assignment on the wall, well, what was it? in short, my painting got “ripped to shreds”, not literally but figuratively speaking, during the crit.
I was quite angry and hurt, with a defense on the tip of my tongue, when the master said to give the crit “the benefit of the doubt”. Yeah, like I really wanted to do that, I wanted to say “How dare you…I worked really hard on this painting… I’m NOT going to change anything on that canvas!”
Then the master said “Go home, take your paintings and turn ‘em over facing the wall, and don’t look at ‘em til the next day. When you look at it tomorrow, you’ll know what you have to do.” I thought, Geez, I enrolled in this so-called master class and this is all this teach had to say at the end of the day??
For some odd reason or another, maybe I had interruptions later on in the day, whatever, but I didn’t get a chance to look at my painting ’til the next day. When I did look at the painting, suddenly the comments from the crit came back, but this time my emotion was distanced by time. I started to see why Jimmy remarked that the left eye was too large when there is foreshortening in a three-quarter view of the face, why my palette colors were not right where there was shadow, etc.
I hated making the changes on the painting, but it was because I started to realize these fellow students were not thinking of themselves or their own work when they crit my painting the day before. They did it because I was also a fellow artist.
Now, you’re probably wondering what has this story got to do with this blog. I learned that my critics (and there were some in that class I never did like) were my teachers. Yup, the critics, not my wonderful friends from the first class who said “wonderful, wonderful”, those pats on the back. It was my critics in this advanced class who taught me that I had WORK to do in order to progress in my painting work.
And it wasn’t easy, BUT I made more progress in that class than the earlier ones in which I got nothing but kudos or compliments.
John, what I’m trying to say is this: your critics can teach you far more than your yaysayers, the ones who say “good job!” Why? If your friends say you’re doing a good job, that you’re wonderful, how do you really know you’re making progress? Your button-pushers are the ones that push you to do your best work, honest-to-god. You don’t have to like them either, but you can learn a lot from them.
FYI, I’m oral deaf, I know some ASL but I’m not fluent in it nor do I expect to be fluent in it due to my age and not enough exposure to it. I have never spoken against ASL since I started commenting on the blogs here in DeafRead. I do recognize ASL’s value at an early age for language acquisition, as long as parents realize that ASL can be part of the package, as Barb DiGi pointed out.
As I did say in my comment that you quoted in the your previous article, you’re a man of good intentions. You and DBC need to clarify the organization’s mission better. Are you willing to listen to a crit??
John Egbert, on December 21st, 2007 at 11:18 pm
Ann C.
No doubt about it that I do listen to many crit and I have learned a lot from people. And also some can hurt you if you are not on guard. Some people can use you for their advantage or gain or jealously.
I just keep my eye on the big picture and that is deaf babies between age of 0 to 3 years which is the most important time to establish their cognitive thinking to learn. Babies are like computers, if you apply the wrong software(different computer software, MAC verses IBM) it may not operate to its full potential.
Now, Ann C.
I started DBC and it is coming along very well but many people don’t know everything about DBC such yet, but it will be soon.
And few of these people have been doing some “crab theory”, deficit thinking propaganda to mislead the public about the real ambition of DBC.
It makes me wonder why don’t they form their own group or organization or coalition rather than worry about DBC?
If these people are so smart, then by all means, do it. Why talk about what we are doing. They need to walk the talk. Get out and do it. Show the world what you know. Don’t go out and be a crit if you have nothing to show for.
There are two deficit crit in the Deafread.com and most of you know who they are and seems to have so much influence on readers but those two guys can’t even form a coalition or project to help others.
This is something that people need to learn that these two deficit thinking bloggers don’t have to ambition to help others but only to boost their ego and so many gullible people are falling for it.
And, Ann C.,
there is no way that I will listen to their “crit”, and even from their gullible groupie people too.
I will only listen to people that understand the big picture and that is to help parents of all babies to learn the potential of using communicative language from birth/start whether the baby is deaf or hearing. And research have proven that sign language is the only way until the child is able to learn speech.
Now, the main thing that needs to achieve is education to the parents but certain organizations such as AGBell/AVT are effectively blocking that information to the parents. And those deficit thinking bloggers are also putting out misleading information about people and coalition such as DBC and saying that deaf culture are cult, etc. These deficit thinking bloggers are the ones that need real crit to help them because they are not even being productive in any way for parents of deaf babies.
Ann C. You ask,
“Are you wiling to listen to a crit?”
My answer is yes, as long as this crit doesn’t have deficit thinking solutions.
And if this crit understands the big picture, the baby’s needs to have a cognitive language, then I am all “ears”.
Happy Holidays
John Egbert
Posted on December 22nd, 2007 by egbertpress
Filed under: Uncategorized
Reading all these blogs and commentaries made me wonder if people really hear each other.
Just about everyone favors adding ASL to babies’ early experience…but quibble on completely unimportant things such as verbiage and get entangled on personalities.
And then they get confused about each other’s motives.
Hey, I bet if everyone answered a limited choice quiz on what they wanted to happen, it would show nearly unanimous agreement. Which would be remarkable, considering the diversity of the Deaf community.
Paotie,
I had to delete your comment on this post because I am doing this for your own good because people may start wondering if you have a sociopath personality.
Look up this,
http://www.hss.caltech.edu/~mcafee/Bin/sb.html
John
Hi John- I hope you don’t mind if I re-posted my comment left in your previous entry as it applies to the topic of this entry. Thanks-
———
#
brenster-, on December 22nd, 2007 at 6:48 am Said:
Hi all-
I’d like to comment about accepting critics which John had already addressed well. Y-E-S, critics are invaluable in offering perspectives and feedback for improvements, especially for something “new.”
As long as the critics are constructive, encouraging and supportive - not intended to insult, defame and damage something.
- “YOU STINK!” - insult and not helpful.
- “The group would go out on witch-hunts against those who disagree.” - Not true, and defamation. And, certainly not a very helpful feedback.
- Some people are attempting to spread out rumors with an intention to hurt reputation of DBC in other blogs. I feel disturbed by some bloggers’ lack of responsibilities to moderate the comments, especially the damaging ones (rumors). From what I have seen there, my congratulations to those commenters for displaying an excellent example of what the “Crab Theory” means.
Remember the bigger picture? ASL for Deaf babies (Again, like DBC has already stated, not to subtract the other tools). So, for those who left DBC on bitter notes, I suggest them to put aside their personal issues for the sake of Deaf babies. Their negative and unhelpful comments about certain individuals already reflected poorly upon themselves.
I have no doubt that it is very learning experience (and still) for those who are involved in DBC. There will be more mistakes, and they will grow and grow. DBC has all my support!
You fail to see or understand Ann_C’s message. “shaking head”.
C,
Could you elaborate where I failed to see or understand Ann_C’s message?
John
C
brenster wrote some word what he/she said “To hurl insults on Deaf people about not understanding English in order to win arguments does not help.”
Yes, I have to agree with brenster. I notice you become pick on John. “ASL Only” not true.
I had looked up http://www.hss.caltech.edu/~mcafee/Bin/sb.html
and surprised that Paotie fits many things on list as sociopath
Have anyone of you seen Paotie in person? talk to him in person?
I hope he go to 2008 Deafread conference, Paotie, will you go there?
Paotie admit he hurts his feeling in a deaf pundit blog.
He seems to be right about John may be having dyslexia.
When I take a look at myself in the mirror daily, do I like what I see? Do I keep an open mind in regards to the crits? Does that reflection I see in the mirror need to make a change? I am my OWN judge and jury, not others.
John– I loved Ann_C’s comment. Beautifully written. I was almost wishing she had a blog. I would read it faithfully. I think most of us agree about ASL John. I have never seen anyone write they think ASL should not be taught to Deaf children or babies.
Kim,
Alexander Graham Bell Association, (AGBell), is aggressively promoting Audio-Verbal Therapy, (AVT), as part of their six million dollar campaign: “Hear From the Start—Talk for a Lifetime”. Their point #3 of the AVT ’s description states: “Guide and coach parents to help their children use hearing as the primary sensory modality in developing spoken language without the use of sign language or emphasis on lipreading.”
So please do your research on AGBell and AVT, they do not want deaf children to learn sign language so they can be “forced” to learn oral only method as if there is no other method.
http://www.agbell.org/DesktopDefault.aspx
John
John, that is not what Kim meant, she is saying that US deaf b/vlogs agree to use ASL on deaf babies… We are not talking about AGB.
Brian,
Here’s what is Kim said,
I have never seen anyone write they think ASL should not be taught to Deaf children or babies.
So this is what I thought she meant.
And I think I stand correct that AGBell/AVT’s #3
“Guide and coach parents to help their children use hearing as the primary sensory modality in developing spoken language without the use of sign language or emphasis on lipreading.”
Could you point out where I am not understand this?
John
John, Yes I stand corrected. Brian is right. I was referring to bloggers. I realize AGBell is against ASL being taught to Deaf children. I don’t agree with their methods.
Kim,
You said,
“I have never seen anyone write they think ASL should not be taught to Deaf children or babies.”
the word, “anyone” means whoever.
So I assumed that you did not think “anyone” have wrote that they think ASL should not be taught to Deaf children or babies.
So I stand correct that you did not know of anyone and I said that AGBell/AVT have stated that sign language should not be taught.
John
Yes John– I already admitted you were technically right and I was wrong. I didn’t state it correctly. Sometimes even people whose first language is English write things the wrong way. I made a mistake.
My implied meaning was “bloggers” but that’s not what I said. English speakers understood when I said “anyone” I meant “anyone in here.” This is a hard thing to explain why we would understand that. It’s a cultural thing maybe. It was implied meaning. But it wasn’t clear to you, so I apologize for confusing you.
I understand English isn’t your first language and why this confused you. Believe me, because I’m learning ASL I often feel confused about ASL for the very same reasons. What seems obvious to you isn’t at all obvious to me.
I was never one of the ones who criticized you about what happened in the past two weeks. I know what it’s like to misunderstand and to be misunderstood.
No one can evaulate whether a person is a sociopath strictly by blog comments. You’d have to get to know the person personally i.e. meet in person and have conversation, etc. This is typically another one of name calling and labeling people without any merit.
I was gone all day, didn’t have chance to respond to your question, John, about Ann C’s message, you’d have to have an open mind to see what she is trying to say. There’s so many times when someone tells me something I don’t like or want to hear, I do reflect on that and realize that person was trying to tell me something about me or my action that I was not aware of because I was either too proud or stubborn. It helps to have other people’s view (crits) to enlighten things better. Ann_C seems to have good intentions telling you that. If she didn’t give a hoot about you or DBC, she would not have bothered to tell you this story.
ChrisH, No, I am not picking on John. Actually, he did answer my question and clarified it several blogs ago and I got my answer. See his previous response to me on that issue, several blogs ago. I wanted him to state that, so others can see (those that do not represent DBC and those that are confused) will now know where DBC stands.
Kim,
I did not really mean to be stubborn but yes I was confused. I forgive you and hope we will enjoy talking together in the future.
Not only that English confuse me but sometime I wonder why. I had brain tumor taken out of my head two and half years ago but I feel great. I don’t want to use that as an excuse but I might not be 100 perfect. This brain surgery turned my life around and knew that I better start doing things good for the Deaf community, wrote a novel, now want to help parents of deaf babies. I really enjoy doing this now.
John
John– thanks! I didn’t feel you were being stubborn. We just didn’t understand each other. That’s all. I’m sorry to hear about your brain tumor, but glad you are OK now and found a way to help others. It’s a great thing you’re doing! Keep up the good work. You know that positive encouragement to the young hearing parents of these Deaf babies works best.
John I just want to say one more thing. I remember when I was young and had my first baby. I was scared. Babies don’t come with instructions. My home life wasn’t perfect when I was growing up, so I worried I might not be a good parent. I wanted to do everything right and it seemed like everyone had conflicting advice. Eventually as I gained confidence, I learned to listen to my child and my own intuition. I did not raise deaf children, but raising children is a struggle. It’s all the more so if a child is different from you.
So remember to be positive– the parents are young and confused and they only want to do what’s best. Remember they love their babies more than the universe itself. Their lives have revolved around that precious Deaf baby since the moment it was conceived. Even if they make what you believe is the wrong choice, they have the very best intentions.
Jean! Nice work! I love the one of Bernard Bragg. My mom always said portraits were the hardest.
Oops wrong blog.
Kim,
I agree with you about young parents and they are confused and they only do what is best for their child.
This is something that somebody needs to give these young parents the truth but those people such as AGBell/AVT that gets ahead of others are so effective to convince the young parents to go their way just because of money.
DBC want the parents to understand what is best for their deaf child just through education but seems that organizations such as AGBell/AVT are able to get their foot in the door with all their money to be able to give one-sided ideology about oral only method education that their child will achieve like a normal person but as the matter fact, many failed and no one knows those failures because AGBell/AVT have the money to keep the real truth from the media, society, young parents, etc to see the truth how a deaf baby could achieve success to gain cognitive language to learn how to learn which is start sign language at the age around 6 months.
We really got a long way to go and DBC needs your help to have deaf baby to learn the right approach to learn a language that can start learning how to learn. But those organizations have so much money that they can block the truth to the society, media, parents of babies that can’t hear.
It is really a sad world we live in, money controls everything whether is right or wrong. It is all about money, not your deaf child.
John Egbert