Please Use Constructive Dialogue in DeafRead.com
Some people need to stop using stupidity one-liner just to misinform the hearing and deaf readers about what kind of people we have in the Deaf community.
This is an example that came in DeafRead.com this morning. See this post,
http://blog.deafread.com/agbellxinfo/2007/12/20/advocating-asl-only%E2%80%A6a-lie/
#
*laughs*
Gawrsh!
No wonder DBC sucks.
:o)
Paotie
Comment by Paotie — December 21, 2007 @ 8:36 am
This needs to be stopped and we need to start having constructive dialogue in DeafRead.com
Thank you,
John Egbert
Posted on December 21st, 2007 by egbertpress
Filed under: Uncategorized
Oh My God!
Why is Paotie doing this?
I know. Nodding my head in disappointment. Paotie is like Ridor, but on opposite ends. I can see he is an angry deaf man, angry at the Deaf community and the World’s Deaf cultures. Give him time as I am sure he is in his twenties. The period when one is going through character exploration and how the self relates to the world. I was once angry at the Deaf world even that my parents and grandparents are Deaf. I can understand him. Everyone has their own time line.
I find myself taking a deep breath at times when some Deaf say they’re sorry that my son has a cochlear implant. This does make me want to protect my boy from my own people.
DBC has a good cause, but I do not agree 100% with their mission statement, but do I have the right to say the organization sucks? No. I choose to pick my battles wisely as I’ve learned from my past mistakes. Spewing insulting words eats one alive. What I do now is staying involved in an organization I beleive in which is Hands and Voices, and investing my energies in keeping the bridge strong between the Deaf community and the local DHH mainstreamed program.
A message for all of us:
Watch your thoughts, they become words.
Watch your words, they become actions.
Watch your actions, they become habits.
Watch your habits, they become character.
Watch your character, it becomes your destiny.
Celebrate Winter Solstice, Happy Hanukkah, Merry Christmas, Kwanzaa, and HNY to all of us!
anna s
Paotie in his 20’s…
Ridor is in his mid 30’s, so what is ridors excuse is he going throgh “character exploration” tooo…
Oh wait Ridor is dead, we not need to worry about him anymore…
I guess Paotie is the NEW “Most controversail deaf blogger in America.”
I say about damn time we have a positive blogger like Paotie around…. He is well needed!
Hi John,
I hope he may reconsider about it and work with us.
I am very much aware that you never mention that you want to remove AVT or oralism from children. Your goal is to help parents understand ASL better and help them make better decision by having whole information.
Perhaps DBC can set up a committee to focus on sending out to all Infant Hearing Programs positive message about ASL and about working with them to improve quality of life for all deaf and hard of hearing children.
Deafchip
Although I left my comments previously, I thought it may be worth pasting in case the readers didn’t see it especially to Paotie..
Paotie,
Your comment reminds me a child who just blurts out,
“I hate you!” “This is not fair!” without any explanations. I don’t see how your comment is justified. I recognize that it is not always possible for everyone to like something (i.e. organizations, schools, methods, etc.) and that is expected but for one to just throw in a negative statement without explanation shows me that this person is not possessing mature thinking.
The DBC has been working very hard everyday to build bridges with parents and professionals by advocating informed choices and the inclusion of ASL along with speech, listening, etc. There is a lot more what DBC has been doing than just vlogging and rallying.
Like Patti Durr’s vlog (People of the Eye: http://blog.deafread.com/pote/2007/12/20/four-agreements/), she mentioned the four agreements (from the book The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom (A Toltec Wisdom Book) by Don Miguel Ruiz) that made a lot of sense.
The first one is to be impeccable with your words.
The second one is not to assume. What I have witnessed here is that some commenters are making assumptions that DBC is advocating ASL only approach. I frown upon them who have not gathered the facts before making such judgement.
The third one is for me to not to take your statement personally (nah).
The fourth one that applies to all of us which is, “Always do your best.” This is what DBC has been doing to do our best to make this world a better place for Deaf babies.
On a personal side for me, I have been working on refraining from making any judgments about anything and anyone. Can you do that as well and make this a 2008 resolution?
On a positive note, there are exciting plans to be unveiled but it takes time for planning. Remember, the DBC is still in infancy stage (founded in July 2007) but it is growing stronger and stronger everyday thanks to people who are the opposite of deficit thinkers. People like you who snicker at DBC are not helping Deaf babies at all. DBC has spent unlimited universal energies that cannot be described fully here in a few short words.
Thank you for listening and may peace be with you,
Barb DiGi
Giving him attention is exactly what he wants. Paotie thrives off making you angry. Ignore him and he’ll go away. Life will be peaceful again.
John, we need tough leaders with thick skins as well as with intellect and wit in order to champion a cause and your message today makes me wonder if you are strong enough to lead.
DT,
I know John Egbert and he is a very strong person. Me No Worry.
It is Paotie, he is spreading deficit cancer, You Yes Worry.
Midwest Guy
He got angry at John because he had no creditability month ago.
There’s something I tell you. Paotie has an implant his penis that make erect for oralititus.
I agreed with the Ignore Paotie commentor. He’s SO predictable there’s no message, just a wasteful stumbling block.
ChrisH,
What is an Oralitius? I have never seen that word before.
John
I learn from Paotie makes a new oralitius in his blog.
pros+ titute = protitute
Oral
Oral+ ism= Oralism
oral+ itius= Oralitius
I mean, make a new word oralitius.
John, you keep spreading lies about Paotie like you are now. The fact that you wrote a blog like this says a lot! You’re no better at all.
People have opinions and everyone has different personalities. You can ignore him but you choose not to. Says a lot.
What really bothers me a lot is that you can’t even speak for yourself nor can you answer simple questions. You still have not answered many questions over the past several days, not only from myself, but from others.
DO i want DBC to succeed? sure! I’m all for making sure all babies are exposed to ASL but if parents decide they want their babies to have CI and/or speech, then we need to try to advocate that ASL is also a good addition to their “plan” for their child. WE can’t tell parents what to do but we can raise awareness about ASL.
I believe Paotie and Ann C do think ASL is good. In fact, I’m ready to bet that one or both of them are fluent in ASL as well. I’ve seen comments by both of them that supports ASL. So, it has nothing to do with ASL but to do with the message that is being diseminated throughout by commenters who decide they want to impose their views of ASL ONLY which is not what DBC stands for. am I correct? DBC supports ASL only? duh excuse me but when I get frustrated that my simple questions can’t be answered…the only thing that comes to mind is duh So, dont get offended by my duh’s ok.
Just like you shouldn’t get too personal about paotie’s comments.
I mean anna S , not ann c. oh boy, sorry….
C wrote it in DP blog.
“Well, Silence speaks volumes (John is very silent right now and deleted one (or more?) of his blog(s). DP had every fact backing her up so it’s impossible she’s lying about anything she said. One need to see John’s orginal blog making that statement then look at DP’s blog after that and then see John’s next blog after that to understand all of this. I’ve noticed some people were behind reading DR and only saw other blogs/vlogs much much later (than J and DP’s) and thought they got the whole picture. Ella and DE is doing “damage control” because that term “deficit thinker” was coined up by them in their DH propaganda. And then again, people are going off the point and obsessing with other things which is off the point to Deficit Thinker/Thinking debate. Doesn’t matter. Those of us that are humble enough to see the truth and know the truth can sleep like a baby.”
C, you are accusation Ella and DE
*laughs*
The DBC sucks because it can’t control their own members, and has no form of accountability.
A win at all costs mentality that damns integrity.
DBC still sucks.
:o)
Paotie
I’m going to excuse your comment because I have a feeling that you might not understand what I meant. When people say something like “Ella and DE is doing damage control” that is not really an accusation, but, rather a statement of my view. It’s ok for people to do damage control, even politics do it all the time. very common. If I had done a vlog, you probably would understand what I meant. Maybe someday I will do a vlog. I know that not all deaf people understands English very well and I know that vlog helps a lot simply because ASL is many deaf people’s first language or the type of language they understands clearly. Even my dad would not understand my English. He would understand better if I had done vlog..so for that reason, I’m going to excuse your comment. I am trying to lower my English level on blogs but sometimes it’s hard to do that when I want to convey the message.
One way you can improve your understanding of English language is to google things like “damage control” and see how other people use that quote or use dictionary to learn what new words means. I do it all the time…I learn more things everyday..learning is never ending!
Peace to you ChisH
“Anna S characterization of Deaf activists as being radical, militant and hotheads.”
http://johnlestina.blogspot.com/2007/11/deaf-bilingual-coalition-indiana-rally.html
gift you
Well, paotie…like Barbara said, DBC is still in its infancy. I believe they started it maybe a year ago or so? It’s still new. There’s no officers..no board…no spokesperson…nothing. John is at the helm with many of his workers below him.
Because it’s new..I would suggest you give them time. I am giving them the benefit of doubt.
DBC Indiana did a great job. Jill Lestina spearheaded that rally and her message was fabulous. Her method was awesome. But, that is the kind of person she is. She turns negatives into positives and focused on the true mission of DBC. Va was I believe the first one and what happened there was unfortunate. I believed that if the hotel employee had not done what she did, things would have gone smoother. Jill gathered all the information and worked with everyone to make sure no lines were crossed and respected the boundaries put forth by university, police and even HearNow Indiana. Wow..they did an awesome Job.
Paotie, if you were to run something like DBC what would be the first few things that you would do? I’m curious.
ChrisH I don’t have time to respond to this in detail. Actually, if you read carefully, you’ll see that Anna S was referring to one of DE’s comments. That is called dialogue, ok.
It’s ok to share things like that. Her comment was not mean to be an Insult.
C -
The first thing I’d do is change the culture of the DBC. I’d focus on empowerment and educational issues. I would strongly frown upon witch-hunts against those who might disagree.
Above all, I would want the DBC to be viewed as a professional entity that offers respectful discourse and welcomes all views. The focus would not be on chastising those who might disagree; the focus would be on educating, educating, educating hearing parents about their options.
But, it ain’t my group. And I will never support a group that routinely engages in witch-hunts with those who disagree.
Lots of people don’t like me, but I don’t obsess over them. I don’t even complain. It’s part of politics.
The DBC is a political entity. It needs to learn to play the political game without regressing into a club of petulant juveniles, out to get revenge when people disagree.
Most of all, I would certainly kick someone out of my organization if they ran around claiming people are “sickos,” because it reflects poorly on the organization. Or at least, I’d issue a public apology on behalf of the DBC.
Ain’t seen any of this. The DBC might be in its infancy, and I can tell: it’s immature leadership is just doing a great job of driving hearing parents AWAY from Deaf culture.
That’s not what I want. But, I advised John 2 months ago that his advocacy methods were causing more harm than good.
And now look where we are today.
:o)
Paotie
C-
How did John keep spreading lies about Paotie? All he did was posting Paotie’s unconstructive comment with an intention to create conflicts. Really, that is not necessary. So, John was asking for discussions in more diplomatic manner.
———-
Everyone,
Second, I suggest people not spread lies about DBC, too. For example, some commenters would say it is good to educate parents about including ASL for Deaf babies, and they would always add “BUT” in their statements, like: “but if parents choose to implant their children, we cannot tell them what to do.”
Those commenters are trying to imply that DBC would attempt to twist the parents’ arms if they decided on something that is not what DBC wanted. That is another example that those commenters are misleading about DBC’s missions.
Lastly, I suggest people not use typical stereotypes about Deaf people. Granted, English is Deaf people’s second language, and sometimes there are some misunderstanding. However, some hearing people have problems with English competence too! To hurl insults on Deaf people about not understanding English in order to win arguments does not help.
I agree with the Ignore Paotie commentor and don’t waste your breathe on him. It’s the best way to do.
Brenster…thank you!
I want to clarify something…I realize that individuals who express their opinions about someone or whatever in DeafRead are representing themselves since they are not speaking for DBC. It is just like Deaf Read human editors that they both have a DeafRead blog and their own blog. This blog does not represent DBC at all. The DBC members share their updates at the DBC blog and that is when it is reflective of the coalition.
So Paotie your comments about not being able to control their members are far-fetched. Whatever the comments they made do not represent DBC but themselves. Get it?
Just let us be..we are not perfect and we are learning from our mistakes. The recent campaign was much more organized because we learn from experience. We all have the same goal as it seems which is to promote ASL in Deaf babies. Why can’t we work together?
In reality, it starts with ourselves when we interact with parents of Deaf children by explaining them about the importance of bilingual education. Yes, the DBC is a political group that advocates its goals
by spreading awareness among AG Bell community that even a few members and parents get to see the “other side”. It is all about planting seeds in their heads and they just go from there. The DBC simply refuses to be apathetic and silent but be heard.
One more clarification..when I said to promote ASL in Deaf babies, that doesn’t mean to subtract the other methods.
Me curious, does it bug you as much as it does me calling the babies Deaf instead of deaf?
I feel that parents would feel threatened when learning that DBC calls their baby Deaf. Their baby is not Deaf yet. Once the baby’s communication modality is ASL, then call the baby Deaf. If I were a hearing parent, I would feel uncomfortable.
This is one of my 3 questions for you, readers. Now my next question is if DBC claims that they are not for ASL-only, how come some of the readers continue to misinterpret DBC’s message? Maybe DBC should try clarifying its position by stressing that speech and listening, cued speechhearing aids, and cochlear implants are part of the package depending on whatthe parents want and what’s on the IFSP.
My last question is why ASL O N L Y? (Cowering from flying bullets) How about SEE, CASE, PSE, whateversignitis? Before you jump into conclusions, I love ASL. It is my native tongue of five generations, allright? But imposing ASL only for deaf babies, it is not realistic or rational. ASL is a whole different language especially for a deaf baby being introduced to baby signs and simple sentence phrases in signs (i.e. CASE), then is slowly being introduced to oralism after implantation.
Just food for thought.
Yep, I sign ASL proficiently. (:
anna s
Oh one more . . . how about Dual Language instead of Bilingualism? The latter has negative connotations aswell as ASL and no other sign systems. It is ASL only and whatever other approaches, but whne it comes to manual communication, it is ASL!
Deaf Dual Language Coalition, hmmm?
anna s
Please respect Barb. She is really encouraging for deaf/Deaf babies to learn ASL…of course…baby signs then ASL…. and she clarifed that it doesn’t mean to subtract the other methods. ASL won’t slow anything . They can use any kind of methods but with ASL. It doesn’t really matter if she uses D or d for that word, Deaf/deaf…Who cares.
Anna S.
No, it doesn’t bug me for me to type deaf babies instead of Deaf babies and with your question about that, I will use deaf babies from now on.
Question 1. How come some of the readers continue to misinterpret DBC’s message about ASL only?
Answer, maybe those few people that twisted information about DBC in DeafRead.com. Some people likes to write deficit thinking message to confuse the readers. Nowhere anywhere DBC have said ASL only.
Question 2. Maybe DBC should try clarifying its position by stressing that speech and listening, cued speech, hearing aids, and cochlear implants are part of the package depending on what the parents want and what’s on the IFSP.
Answer, Those options are already set up and prepared but ASL is left out. This is where we should have all options on the table and DBC thinks that ASL should be one of them but in most cases, it is intentionally left out.
Question 3. My last question is why ASL O N L Y? (Cowering from flying bullets) How about SEE, CASE, PSE, whateversignitis?
Answer, ASL is the only true cognitive language. Research have proven that ASL is a real true language while the other such as SEE, CASE, PSE, etc is a coded method. They are not real language. You cannot paraphrase meanings with SEE or CASE or PSE, etc but with ASL, you can. ASL have many signs for one word while SEE, etc only have one sign for one word.
Anna, I hope that I explained clearly. And I need to get back to my family as this is Christmas time, my two deaf grandchildren are here with me right now.
Have a wonderful Holiday, Anna
John Egbert
Anna S.
I see that you have one more question for me,
“Oh one more . . . how about Dual Language instead of Bilingualism? The latter has negative connotations aswell as ASL and no other sign systems. It is ASL only and whatever other approaches, but whne it comes to manual communication, it is ASL!
Deaf Dual Language Coalition, hmmm?
anna s”
Ideas keeps coming up all the time and they are not bad.
Anna, I am just a fisherman with no high school degree or college degree and I founded DBC last July and it has become an Icon all over the world.
There are many of people that can start up a coalition, Deaf Dual Language Coalition is not a bad idea, go for it.
If I can do it, so can all and any of you can.
The deaf babies need more people like you to speak up and convince AGBell/AVT just to accept ASL as part of a teaching method to teach speech. AGBell knows and research have proven that ASL can teach a deaf baby or child speech in a much better, faster rate than without any language the child has in the first place while learning speech. Isn’t this a very simple common sense? And why AGBell/AVT refuse to try ASL?
I hope that you will be involved to help deaf babies to achieve their knowledge sooner how to learn to learn…even speech.
John
Thanks, John. You are a good man.
Salut Anna S.,
My mother was deafened at two and father was deafened at 16. Both used sign language. They had NEVER taught sign language to me; rather, I was exposed to their sign language day in and day out — in much the same way that hearing babies are exposed to their hearing parents’s English.
If you, your parents, and grandparents use ASL where your son is around, it is most likely that he has been exposed to ASL. If in this regard, your son is, therefore, both culturally Deaf and physically deaf.
My hearing sister and hearing nephew picked up sign language from their respective parents.
Also, if your son knows English, he is bilingual. If he is interested in learning a third language, say, French, he would become trilingual. If a fourth language, he would become a multilingual!
Joyeux Noël et bonne année!
Addendum for Anna S.:
DBC stresses on excelsoir for deaf children. Therefore, therefore, DBC equally stresses the earnest importance of bilingualism: that is, the deaf child’s brthright language (see Roch Ambroise Bébian’s discovery of langue naturele in Harlan Lane’s “When the Mind Hears” [1984]) and the language that the majority of the people speak in any country.
DBC has no intention of telling parents to deprive their children of the opportunity to receive speech and AVT training.
My parents, d/Deaf themselves, sent me to a private oral school (St. Francis Xavier’s). The teachers were nuns who were scholars, educated by other scholars in New York. Not like the AGB organisation, the nuns were open-minded and came into full realisation that oralism was an utter fiasco not only for me but also for other studengts. They quietly switched to sign language.
However, some adudlts who were implanted are currently angry with their parents. One in France, another one in Canada, the third in the USA.. I do not carry in the pocket two sources for the A and B, but I do have a source foe the third which is at (vid.infra): http://www.aslvlogs.com/dec2007/amy_oberry.swf
I am more than happy to answer Anna S’s questions as they are valid. John had taken the moment to answer the best he could and I would like to add few things.
From the way I see it, I use capitalized letter D when talking about Deaf people in general. It doesn’t mean that it focuses on WHO gets to be culturally Deaf. I am just breaking away from the traditional perspective as coined by James Woodward. I just disliked the idea of who gets to be Deaf and deaf when referring to a group of people.
The term, Deaf, is a proper noun just like the same way we call ethnic groups (i.e. Arabians, African-Americans, French, Chinese, etc.) with capital letters. They share similar physical features (hair, skin color, eye shapes, etc.) just like Deaf people having in common that they are not hearing. Some of them eventually adopt ASL, exhibit deaf behaviors (tapping on shoulders, stomping on feet, etc.) and share similar experiences. My point is that babies who are born from, let’s say, a family who is Italian in America. Do we call this baby italian (with a small i) if we are to identify his or her nationality although the language is not even spoken in the house? This baby may not have yet acquired Italian language yet the way we write, we would write capitalized I to describe the baby’s nationality. So why couldn’t we say the same for Deaf babies? While it is true that approximately 95% of Deaf babies are born from hearing families, they may not have acquired ASL and such in the beginning stages of their lives but so are the millions of nationality/ethnic groups who don’t even know their home language but we still don’t call them in small letters. So why should it be different for the Deaf? However, to use a small d has a place when it comes to describing the audiology component and it can be used when writing a sentence like, “Oh she can’t hear you, she’s deaf.” Using capital D is empowering from the way I see it.
About the term bilingual, I understand that the word itself isn’t embraced by some people that may cause a negative impression especially in certain regions (SW, Southern California). The term bilingual when applying to ASL and English is already being widely used if you take a look around: CAEBER, ASL/English Bilingual specialists (my job title is one of them), bilingual being adopted in schools for the Deaf in their mission statement, and so on. It looks like that the term bilingual is more acceptable when it comes to ASL/English than it is to Spanish/English. It is just a funny world we are living in!
I’m going to use an analogy of a sorts, so bear with me here:
Some years ago I took up a class in portrait painting, and I thought I was progressing along rather nicely, as my fellow students and teacher encouraged me and gave me lots of kudos on my work in class.
Then at the end of the term my teacher said that he taught me everything he possibly knew and believed that I needed to take a more advanced class if I were to get better at this portrait painting. So, this teacher gave me the name of a “master” teacher who taught at an art academy and said that if I wanted to move forward on the painting to enroll in this master’s class if I was interested..
I enrolled in this class, much to my trepidation. However, I had enjoyed this other class and thought “Why not? See if I learn anything.”
I enrolled the following term in this master’s class and went to the class the first time it met. We had to paint a portrait of a live model’s face. Well, as anyone who has taken an art studio course, there is a critique, or crit for short, of the students’ work towards the end of the class. When the class got to my portrait assignment on the wall, well, what was it? in short, my painting got “ripped to shreds”, not literally but figuratively speaking, during the crit.
I was quite angry and hurt, with a defense on the tip of my tongue, when the master said to give the crit “the benefit of the doubt”. Yeah, like I really wanted to do that, I wanted to say “How dare you…I worked really hard on this painting… I’m NOT going to change anything on that canvas!”
Then the master said “Go home, take your paintings and turn ‘em over facing the wall, and don’t look at ‘em til the next day. When you look at it tomorrow, you’ll know what you have to do.” I thought, Geez, I enrolled in this so-called master class and this is all this teach had to say at the end of the day??
For some odd reason or another, maybe I had interruptions later on in the day, whatever, but I didn’t get a chance to look at my painting ’til the next day. When I did look at the painting, suddenly the comments from the crit came back, but this time my emotion was distanced by time. I started to see why Jimmy remarked that the left eye was too large when there is foreshortening in a three-quarter view of the face, why my palette colors were not right where there was shadow, etc.
I hated making the changes on the painting, but it was because I started to realize these fellow students were not thinking of themselves or their own work when they crit my painting the day before. They did it because I was also a fellow artist.
Now, you’re probably wondering what has this story got to do with this blog. I learned that my critics (and there were some in that class I never did like) were my teachers. Yup, the critics, not my wonderful friends from the first class who said “wonderful, wonderful”, those pats on the back. It was my critics in this advanced class who taught me that I had WORK to do in order to progress in my painting work.
And it wasn’t easy, BUT I made more progress in that class than the earlier ones in which I got nothing but kudos or compliments.
John, what I’m trying to say is this: your critics can teach you far more than your yaysayers, the ones who say “good job!” Why? If your friends say you’re doing a good job, that you’re wonderful, how do you really know you’re making progress?
Your button-pushers are the ones that push you to do your best work, honest-to-god. You don’t have to like them either, but you can learn a lot from them.
FYI, I’m oral deaf, I know some ASL but I’m not fluent in it nor do I expect to be fluent in it due to my age and not enough exposure to it. I have never spoken against ASL since I started commenting on the blogs here in DeafRead. I do recognize ASL’s value at an early age for language acquisition, as long as parents realize that ASL can be part of the package, as Barb DiGi pointed out.
As I did say in my comment that you quoted in the your previous article, you’re a man of good intentions. You and DBC need to clarify the organization’s mission better. Are you willing to listen to a crit??
My biggest curious… (hope it don’t stir any pot - be nice) ..
Who create SEE? My thought was that it was by the hearing people who disagreed ASL, then invented SEE to match AVT or something like that, is it?
Who create CSE? I have no clue. I had visual talking that it was mixed with ASL and SEE, is it?
Who create PSE? I have no clue. Mix ASL with what?
Ann C.
No doubt about it that I do listen to many crit and I have learned a lot from people. And also some can hurt you if you are not on guard. Some people can use you for their advantage or gain or jealously.
I just keep my eye on the big picture and that is deaf babies between age of 0 to 3 years which is the most important time to establish their cognitive thinking to learn. Babies are like computers, if you apply the wrong software(different computer software, MAC verses IBM) it may not operate to its full potential.
Now, Ann C.
I started DBC and it is coming along very well but many people don’t know everything about DBC such yet, but it will be soon.
And few of these people have been doing some “crab theory”, deficit thinking propaganda to mislead the public about the real ambition of DBC.
It makes me wonder why don’t they form their own group or organization or coalition rather than worry about DBC?
If these people are so smart, then by all means, do it. Why talk about what we are doing. They need to walk the talk. Get out and do it. Show the world what you know. Don’t go out and be a crit if you have nothing to show for.
There are two deficit crit in the Deafread.com and most of you know who they are and seems to have so much influence on readers but those two guys can’t even form a coalition or project to help others. This is something that people need to learn that these two deficit thinking bloggers don’t have to ambition to help others but only to boost their ego and so many gullible people are falling for it.
And, Ann C., there is no way that I will listen to their “crit”, and even from their gullible groupie people too.
I will only listen to people that understand the big picture and that is to help parents of all babies to learn the potential of using communicative language from birth/start whether the baby is deaf or hearing. And research have proven that sign language is the only way until the child is able to learn speech.
Now, the main thing that needs to achieve is education to the parents but certain organizations such as AGBell/AVT are effectively blocking that information to the parents. And those deficit thinking bloggers are also putting out misleading information about people and coalition such as DBC and saying that deaf culture are cult, etc. These deficit thinking bloggers are the ones that need real crit to help them because they are not even being productive in any way for parents of deaf babies.
Ann C.
You ask, “Are you wiling to listen to a crit?”
My answer is yes, as long as this crit doesn’t have deficit thinking solutions.
And if this crit understands the big picture, the baby’s needs to have a cognitive language, then I am all “ears”.
John Egbert
Barb: In responce to your post at 10 p.m.,
The rules about the capitalised “D” in the United Kingdom and the USA differ from those in Europe.
In all European countries, people do not use a capitalised letter for language or a native person. Au contraïire, whilst Europeans use a lower case “Je suis française (I am French); Je parle française (I speak French). Also in Spain, Italy, Germany, and oher countries, they do not say, “I am Española,” “I am Italiana,”, and so on, Rather, they literally say: “i am española; i am italiana.” Of course, the first letter of subject remains capitalised: “Je parle française.”
It is the United Kingdom and the USA that use a capitalised letter, “I am British,” I am Australian,” and so on.
In Europe, one also says, “je suis une sourde-muette” (I am Deaf and Mute.) In Spain and Italy, they write “sordomudo” instead Sordomudo or write inglés instead of Inglés for English.
Therefore, in the World Federation of the Deaf, British officers passed the vote that capitalised letters be used henceforth for British-English and American-English words whilst the rules of Europeans for lower cases remain unchanged.
Anna S.:
It is my understanding that your son is hard-of-hearing.
That means that he is not physically deaf, but he still is
culturally Deaf if he utilises ASL.
Hi all-
I’d like to comment about accepting critics which John had already addressed well. Y-E-S, critics are invaluable in offering perspectives and feedback for improvements, especially for something “new.”
As long as the critics are constructive, encouraging and supportive - not intended to insult, defame and damage something.
- “YOU STINK!” - insult and not helpful.
- “The group would go out on witch-hunts against those who disagree.” - Not true, and defamation. And, certainly not a very helpful feedback.
- Some people are attempting to spread out rumors with an intention to hurt reputation of DBC in other blogs. I feel disturbed by some bloggers’ lack of responsibilities to moderate the comments, especially the damaging ones (rumors). From what I have seen there, my congratulations to those commenters for displaying an excellent example of what the “Crab Theory” means.
Remember the bigger picture? ASL for Deaf babies (Again, like DBC has already stated, not to subtract the other tools). So, for those who left DBC on bitter notes, I suggest them to put aside their personal issues for the sake of Deaf babies. Their negative and unhelpful comments about certain individuals already reflected poorly upon themselves.
I have no doubt that it is very learning experience (and still) for those who are involved in DBC. There will be more mistakes, and they will grow and grow. DBC has all my support!
Ann_C,
Great analogy. Very true! It applies excellently to teaching speech to Deaf kids who obviously do not benefit from those lessons. Speech teachers always misled them into thinking they were doing excellently. Ella did a vlog on her experience related to this, and many Deaf people have had similar experiences.
[…] http://blog.deafread.com/egbertpress/2007/12/21/please-use-constructive-dialogue-in-deafreadcom/ […]
It’s a rule in the English language that proper nouns (i.e., names) are capitalized. My understanding is that the capital-D in the word “Deaf” is used to indicate that it is a proper noun, not a common noun.
In other words, culturally deaf people are are specific group of people and “Deaf” is the name to refer to that specific group.
A problem arises, because the specific group of culturally deaf people all over the world is a very large and heterogeneous group. Therefore, in America when people use the word (name) “Deaf”, it is usually a short-cut for “American Deaf.” The precise meaning is shown by the context.
We do not have common nouns for english, french, chinese because there really is no such thing as “english-ness” or “chinese-ness” that is part of the human body. The corresponding capitalized terms arose as proper nouns/names to denote specific groups of people in specific geographical regions.
John–Paotie is just a big old brat sometimes. Try to ignore the angry outbursts. At the same time please realize he’s a pretty smart guy and he has a lot of passion. Sometimes the people with the most passion are the igniters who can get a movement rolling. We need them, as difficult as they may be to get along with. There is some wisdom to what he says. He’s not against ASL, he’s just baiting you — and it **sucks.** I’ve been there. He is not the kind of person you want to mess with– which is why it’s good to have him on your side.
Also– I have to ask— is Ridor really **dead** as in deceased? Or is it just his blog??? I haven’t heard, I’m out of the loop.
Kim,
Have you actually met Paotie in person? Is he actually a human being? No one knows and have seen him according to the readers.
As far as I am concern, he is a phantom, a joke, someone created this jokester. Prove it to me that he exist.
John– you’re right. We don’t know who Paotie is. I haven’t met him. You haven’t met me, so even if I did say I met him would that make a difference? I haven’t met McConnell either. McConnell says he knows Paotie Have you met Mconnell? Maybe McConnell isn’t a real person? Karen says she has met McConnell and a few others, so I tend to think McConnell might be real, but Karen could be fake too.
Paotie needs his privacy for some reason. He isn’t asking anything of you, except to listen. I realize that’s hard when someone calls you and your organization names. Maybe you can start listening when he stops calling you names and telling you DBC “sucks”.
John, I hope you understand I support you and your coalition–OK? I know you feel you’ve been attacked. Most of us support your coalition. There is always room for growth in any organization. I love your idea of reaching out to the late-deaf too. You are a do-er. You get things done, John! You’re more action than talk and that’s a wonderful attribute.
Ann C,
Interesting analog! I wholeheartedly agree with you. Your teacher is a top-notch one. He makes you think and work harder. That is what I like about your teacher/
Interesting to note that you and I have something in common: a passion in painting. To view my art works, click http://www.rit.edu/~420www/data.htm. Clcik “Artists” and then click “Boutcher”. The ones shown on the RIT.edu are portraits of educators of the deaf. The others not shown there are in the private collection of my friends and schools — landscape, sea, buildings, flowers, etc.
Once again, I thank you for your interesting comment.
Jean– Your link didn’t work. Maybe it needs to be updated? Thanks. I wanted to see your work too. While I am not a painter, my mother is. I grew up appreciating art and what it takes to create a beautiful work. She managed an art gallery in town as well as painted. I got to know many of the local artists in the area. Probably the only reason I am NOT an artist is I always felt intimidated by my mothers talent, though teachers raved about my stuff in every art class I ever took. I always knew it would never be as good as moms.
Whoa, Kim! I have not said I have met McConnell… I met him… online only. But never in person. Never met Paotie in person, but I respect his right to privacy. I am not going to lose sleep over these persons; long ago I made my decision to enjoy their writings, even though their writings may appear controversial sometimes, whether some people disagree with my decision.
Yeah, I am fake also :o) Well, a few vloggers know me personally (Barb Digi, John and Jill Lestina, Jay Krieger…) You could ask them for verification if you wish, but it is kind of ridiculous.
Okay, I read JE’s latest blog in which he stated that he had a tumor removed from his brain and that his comprehension of English is not that great, but at least that cleared up some things, why he behaves that way, etc. John, it might be a good idea if you just ask someone in your organization if he/she would be willing to be a spokesperson so that you could focus your energies on other stuff related to DBC.
All right, happy holidays!
Whoa, Karen
I may have brain surgery but do not behave like your “respectable” friend, Paotie.
These people know me personally (Barb Digi, David Eberwein, Joey Baer, Tayler Mayer…) You could ask them for verification if you wish, but it is kind of ridiculous.
i have nothing to hide or have the desire to be mystery like Paotie.
DBC has six core leaders and they are all spokesperson for DBC.
Karen, thank you for your concern
Happy Holidays,
John
I just emailed you. You really need to stop this hostility NOW.
Kim and Ann C.,
Mea culpa! I should have typed “d” instead of “t” in dada. Here is the correct URL:
http://www.rit.edu/~420www/dada.htm.
Joyeux Noël et Bonne Année.
John,
Who are the six core leaders? I have not seen any membership application.
Merci beaucoup,
Jean
Jean,
I wrote you an email that I will release all the information about membership, etc.
The six core leaders are;
Ella Lentz - Tour speaker on DeafHood
Tami Hossler - Hearing parent
David Eberwein - Teacher at Fremont CSD, tour speaker on DeafHood
Barb DiGi - Teacher at RSD
David Reynolds - Teacher at college near Pleasanton, CA
John Egbert - Founder
More info on each leader will be in upcoming new website.
John
Hi Karen,
Sorry — I guess I misunderstood about your friendship with Mike. I haven’t personally met anyone in here, though I am open to meeting them. Also I plan to go to Pennsylvania this summer for a convention with my late-deaf/oral-deaf group, and I would love to meet any others there as well. Additionally, I’m going to AZ this winter so I would be glad to meet anyone in the Phoenix area. I LOVE meeting with other d/Deaf people.
I agree with you to a certain extent, though I like to become cyberfriends with some people I meet on-line. I feel Paotie holds us at a distance by being so private. I’m sure he has his reasons, and like you I have come to terms with it.
I’m very open about a lot of things. I’ve posted my picture, and about my homelife without revealing my last name or where I live. If a private investigator really wanted to sniff me out they could, but I trust no one is that interested to do it.
Paotie is a puzzle just waiting to be solved! He would be better off creating an alter ego, instead of this shroud of mystery. But that’s his choice.
Have a Merry Christmas!
Jean– I accidently posted back to you on your art in the other blog on Constructive Dialog– I loved your portraits. Beautiful Work!