Protesting Plans at AG Bell’s Conference
Many people want to support Deaf Bilingual Coalition and attend the protest site at Crystal Gateway Marriott in Arlington, Virginia because they also believe that Deaf babies should start learning signs as well as thousands of hearing babies right now across the country and other countries at the age of 6 months.
The main issue with AG Bell is that their ideology with deaf babies learning oral/speech,…..is not to learn ASL at all.
AG Bell is believes that the deaf child must not have any knowledge or awareness of American Sign Language so that the deaf child will have to learn some form of speech as if there is no other choice.
Deaf Bilingual Coalition believes the use of two languages that is paramount; one that is visual that has linguistic properties, and is a shared language within a community—ASL and English in its printed form. This is bilingualism, the true fiber of a deaf person in America where ASL and English are the two languages to convey thoughts and to act as a bridge, one to the other and again, time spent trying to magically get a deaf child to hear and/or speak only is time forever lost to true learning.
The protest supporters will meet at Gallaudet SAC on July 25th and 26th around 11 am to 1 pm during lunch hour. And also other meetings will be post soon about where they may be, possibly next to Crystal Gateway Marriott on Thursday and Friday night. Please check it out daily or hourly on Deafread.com for updates.
Here are some of the guidelines that we will be talking about at the meeting on the 25th and 26th.
1. We are expecting to wear nice clothes.
2. No hollering or making noise.
3. Selected people will talk to the Press/reporters.
We have 60 T Shirts for $15 each, all profits goes to Deaf Bilingual Coalition.
The T Shirts are yellow with navy blue prints.
Front of shirt;
AG Bell’s
GREATEST
IRONY
Back;
WHY HEARING
BABIES SIGN
BUT
DEAF BABIES
DO NOT?
Those of you coming in from out of state to Reagan National Airport can take the Crystal Gateway Marriott shuttle bus to the hotel leaving every 30 minutes. You also can take the Metro train in DC area to Reagan Airport and use the hotel shuttle bus so you don’t have to find a parking spot at or near the hotel .
Yes, we have people coming in to Washington DC from California for the protest only!!!!
There will be more discussions at Gallaudet SAC on the 25th and 26th, see you there as a supporter for Deaf Babies Signing.
John F. Egbert
need to contact me? http://www.deafchildrenandsigning.com/index.html
Posted on July 18th, 2007 by egbertpress
Filed under: Uncategorized
I would like to buy shirt ” Why hearing babies sign but deaf babies do not?” How can I order?
Protestors could get there from the Crystal City Metrorail station (subway) via the Underground City interconnected to the Marriott Gateway Hotel. 1/4 block walking distance.
For more info how to get there from anywhere within the DC area. Go to the Washington Metropolitian Transit Authority (WMATA) website - http://www.wmata.com
Anyone could simply type the destination FROM and TO:
Why the meetings have to be at Gallaudet’s SAC? I know the excellent place for holding meetings right next to the Marriott Gateway Hotel - apartment building with the meeting room.
Robert L. Mason (RLM)
To Edward Nugent,
These sixty shirts will be for the protesters to wear at the protest site. Those first 60 people coming to the meeting on 25th and 26th will buy the shirts. And after the protest, I will order more shirts.
As the matter of fact, many have already asked me to hold their shirts when they arrive DC for the protest.
I will post a Vlog showing the T-shirts after the protest and how people can order them. Also many want to donate monies to Deaf Bilingual Coalition and now we are working with CAD, a 501c3 organization to help us on this so people can write off taxes.
John F. Egbert
Robert L. Mason,
By all means, that would be great!!
Since I am in Minnesota right now and wasn’t able to coordinate this last minute plans.
Could you help me or tell me how I could see if we could have a meeting at that apartment on Thursday and Friday night and who to contact?
I will be much appreciated if we can make this event to run very smooth.
John f. Egbert
Will the media be there? I hope so!
John,
My hearing friend lives at the high rise apartment meeting in front of the Marriott Gateway Hotel. I dunno know about the availability of meeting rooms during Thursday and Friday nights. I have to find out about this one. Okay?
Everyone know where the Gallaudet University’s SAC is. Keep Everthing Simple and Non-Complicated. As everyone get familar with the surrounding area of the Marriott Gateway Hotel after the Gallaudet meetings.
There are numerous eateries and coffeehouses walking distance from the Marriott Gateway Hotel. I urge you to check out the Google Imaging Map and contact the Marriott Gateway Hotel concriege desk via email message for list of nearest eateries and shopping areas, etc.
Many public spaces within the Underground Mall for people to get together and have meeting(s), etc.
Why not reserve one of hotel’s mini conference room or meeting room? The hotel surely glad to accompany your needs as a hotel client without paying for the room use, etc.
Have you contact the Arlington County Police for the street demonstration permit(s) in advance? Just make to get permit as Plan B, Plan C, etc.
The Jefferson-Davis Highway is really an quiet street. despite the highway name. The hotel is located between the streets.
People could walk four to five blocks from the Pentagon City Metrorail station or Pentagon City Fashion Centre shopping center to the Marriott Gateway Hotel vias Crystal City area.
There is a nearby city park two blocks from the Marriott Gateway Hotel.
I will get back to you tommorow afternoon or Friday after checking out with my hearing friend. My apartment is in another part of Arlington, not the Crystal City area.
Robert L. Mason (RLM)
I looked up the Marriott Gateway Hotel’s features for small meeting rooms. I found out about the hotel library room/computer lounge room.
Since you are a hotel guest yourself. You have much right to use the hotel’s feature amenties like the library room or computer lounge room for having the group meeting.
Robert L. Mason (RLM)
When I support the protest I would still like to see the protestoRs state something like cochlear implantS, use of speech are perfectly fine as long as deaf babies have ASL.
SHOW THE WORLD THAT WE ARE NOT AGAINST ORALISM NOR COCHEAR IMPLANTS, BUT ARE AGAINST PREVENTING DEAF CHILDREN FROM ACCESS TO A VISUAL LANGUAG.
TRUE BILINGUALISM IS A COMBINATION OF ASL WRITTEN ENGLISH AND ORAL SKILLS.
The last thing I don’t want to hear is them calling us militants or extremists.
Please please show support for their mission but to let deaf babies have their right to Asl Too!
I want to order the shirt too. Please e-mail me when its available to the public.
Since these deaf babies you refer to are NOT yours, I would suggest that you consider the possibility that those of us with deaf children of our own would perhaps have chosen to teach our children the English language starting from birth, and that we sought out the support of AG Bell and other such organizations on our own. No one forced us. In addition, we have seen our children successfully master the language with all of it’s complexity and learn to read, too. Signing with hearing babies, while a fun fad that the bored suburbanite mother does with her time, is not the same in any way as encouraging a deaf infant to overemphasize his or her visual sense when the auditory sense is the one which is needing stimulation. Fortunately, with today’s technology, deaf children can become hearing all of their waking hours and can learn to talk in the language of their grandparents, their neighbors and their classmates. They do not have to wonder when they will run across someone who speaks their language.
Whatever you wish to do in the way of protest will never change what hearing parents want for their children– to be able to communicate with them in a complex manner which would be impossible for parents who did not learn sign in their childhood. The statistics show that hearing parents (who study hard) reach about a preschool level of ability in sign language. This would be terribly stunting for a deaf child, who would never be able to discuss philosophical issues that come up even in the preschool years.
In addition, I think that if there is a way to infiltrate and change the makeup of the board (which there is not), we hearing parents would go elsewhere and do our thing in another organization or with each other. Our kids talk like any other kids and frequently astound those who meet them because they can live their life just like any other kid, without concerns for translators, captioning, TTYs and all of the other things which previous generations had to worry about.
So go ahead, protest, but I guarantee if the media interviews a kid like mine, they will convince almost every TV watcher out there that organizations like AG Bell are doing a great work. You can’t fight the great progress that they are doing, or the wonderful successes of thousands of implanted kids who hear whispers and score nearly 100% in the soundbooth.
AB Bell is not in the business of telling parents what to do. They support those who have chosen to teach their children to listen and speak, and for that, we greatly appreciate and admire them. THANK YOU, AG Bell.
Amy,
I grew up in the hearing world til I learned American Sign Language at the age of 18 years old. My speech is superb in comparison to vast majority of the oral world deaf people. I really did not need to learn American Sign Language, the society actually thinks that I am a hearing person.
Amy, I know both sides of the reality of being hearing and deaf. I know what deaf people are going through. The answer to the problem is bilingual language for all deaf children. It has been proven that a deaf child learn American Sign Language at birth have better English language than a deaf child learning speech/oral at birth. It has been proven that a deaf child of deaf parents have better English language than a deaf child of hearing parents.
Amy, just what is wrong for a child to learn two language, a bilingual
method. I am not against speech, Ci, etc. But why are you against sign language? Why is AG Bell is against sign language(ASL)?
Amy, It takes one to know one. I have been there.
Please don’t be biased.
John F. Egbert
Amy, I have been nicey nicey until this afternoon when a speech audiologist came to our house to work with our 6 month old Deaf Noam. He will wear digital aids soon and start receiving auditory training. I asked her questions and one of my questions was, you know that school with about 65 deaf/hoh students.. She said, oh yes..they are semi-lingual zombies so cueless what to do when they really should know how to order a drink or ask where to go to restroom.
Most of them have CI for several years already. Most of their spoken English and signing both are pathetically weak.
John, I had a second thought and YES go over to the Marriott Hotel and tell them to stop oral only idealogy.
These kids sign SEE. No exposure to ASL. Get it?
Will NAD support this movement? I know in the past NAD had made some comments that it is up to the parents to decide what is the best for their Deaf child.
I support bilingual education and I am curious what are the goals and outcomes are expected from protesting at the AG Bell Conference?
AG Bell can say “We just provide information and opportunities for parents who wishes to pursue speech and auditory path for their Deaf child.”
Then NAD would say, “It is true that every child had benefitted from learning sign language before they are able to speak and, if you need more information, contact NAD at http://www.nad.org.”
Who are the targets? AG Bell conference attendees or the parents of the Deaf child?
I can easily locate and show you studies which show the exact opposite of what you are claiming. Bilingual education results in poor literacy skills and educational levels. I have seen the listening and speaking skills of kids in BI-bi and TC programs, and there is no comparison to the language and vocabulary of orally educated kids. In fact, many parents base their choice of communication on the kids they meet in these programs.
Whatever your experience, it has no bearing on whether the children of today can be successful with spoken language. They are. They are not limping along, ready to chuck it all when they can finally spread wings and fly along with the Deaf Culture. I am against my sons using sign language because I am a proponent of them having the most opportunities in life. Simple as that. I don’t want them to have to be griping on some blog someday about how mean the movie industry is for not captioning, or how the doctor they chose didn’t have an interpreter worth a darn when an emergency arose.
AG Bell provides opportunities for children like mine. Parents who have made other choices have plenty of state Deaf schools which are very big proponents of ASL. In fact, the reality is that it is considered so “cool” to be bilingual or TC. Since the 70s, that became the way to educate deaf children, and up until fairly recently those who wanted oral educations really had to work hard (or drive long distances) to find an oral school or an AVT who would support their child in the mainstream. You can find a half dozen or so TC preschool classrooms for every one oral, I’d bet.
I don’t have much need for AG Bell currently, though I am grateful they exist. Because, the truth of the matter is, my children lead completely normal, mainstreamed lives and don’t need anything besides batteries and the infrequent mapping at the audiologist to maintain their hearing. They function as hearing people all day long, so it’s really not a question of deaf children being removed from a sacred, God-given tradition or lacking their true culture… it’s a scenario where two kids who once were missing some cochlear hair cells now can utilize all 5 senses. I’m not kidding, and my kids are not even close to being alone in this. I know thousands of kids just like mine, who every day talk and listen and enjoy movies and phone calls and music… and were born deaf. My boys didn’t learn to speak by copying lipreading or whatever methods used to be used. They actually hear and replicate that. Comparing yourself to them is apples to oranges, because they are hearing, not just speaking.
The biggest logical proof to me is the statistics regarding employment and educational levels of deaf individuals. It’s clear that, if we want our kids to be gainfully employed, well educated kids, then we have made the right decision. When I read a complicated novel to my 6 year old, though, and he asks detailed questions about the plot– then I know in my heart that he’s going to do all right. I know, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that he will be a happy adult. I know a few kids who are high school and college aged whose parents have shown us the way, and the kids have not turned sour or angry or regretted a bit of the fact that their parents and they share the same language. It’s not a curse, but a present.
Amy,
Regarding about State schools for the Deaf, it is well known that it’s a dumping grounds for the “failed” oral deaf educated children.
Nearly 70% of students at most state schools for the Deaf were mainstreamed.
Amy, I am happy that you have great kids, but let’s wait until they are 25 years old and then we can make judgement if the right decision has been made.
Amy, Just what is wrong with sign language? What is it about sign language(ASL) that you seem to hate?
John F. Egbert
I am usually a nice lady, but seeing your comments begs my question: What planet are you on? Your kids don’t need relay service, tty, interpreter or anything? They speak perfectly? They need to discuss philosophy in preschool? Ability to orally order at a restaurant the foremost skill? Sorry, but it does sound like you are not quite there.
p.s. My son is hearing and was a strong reader as a pre schooler. He read Harry Potter at 8. Like you, I thought he was college bounded. He could name all primary colors at 2. At 15, the picture is quite different. You can’t presume too much at that young age.
Cy, no, my kids hear so well that they do not need any services whatsoever. My youngest, 14 months, still has AV Therapy, of course, as he is learning to speak, but he is doing fine. My 6 year old hears and repeats random word tests at 98% in the soundbooth. His random word IN NOISE test is 88%.
My 6 year old is watching a bit of TV this morning. No, the captioning isn’t on. He can tell you exactly what was said. It is not turned up loud. I am sure he will not need interpreters in school. He speaks and hears on the phone without any trouble.
Yes, I have 4 boys, and with my hearing and my deaf children we have discussed philosophical issues when they come up. Things like “why do people do bad things” or “why do people die?” are the kinds of issues which actually do come up in the preschool years, and are issues that we can discuss in-depth. Kids who have problems are the kids whose mothers don’t or can’t address these kinds of genuine, child-initiated queries. Hearing parents who learn sign in adulthood rarely go beyond the simple babysign style signing, with simple nouns making up most of their repertoire. I know that ASL is a detailed, complex (and real!) language which I could not do justice to fast enough to speak well to my kids. I couldn’t do that any more than I could quickly pick up Russian, adopt a Russian child, and speak to them right away about all of life.
I’m not sure what kind of other issues your son has, but I have no doubt that my hearing (but born deaf) kids will go and do whatever they desire in life. I never mentioned restaurants, but although my 6 year old can read and order off the menu, that is certainly not the “foremost skill.” He could call and order Chinese, or he could decide someday to study Chinese as a 2nd language!
The orally educated “failures” spoken about are likely those who actually were not appropriately educated, identified early, aided appropriately, implanted early, etc. Parents who don’t follow up can see poor results. Once in awhile you do hear about parents who didn’t go back for mappings or do any AVT and who just wondered when the talking would occur. Fortunately, with the age of implantation falling, the youngest ones find it quite easy to learn language, and it will be harder for poorly educated parents to mess up.
It’s not true that the deaf schools are filled with oral rejects. They are mostly full of people who think that a bilingual or TC approach, offered at their first birth to three meeting with a facilitator, sounds really great. (Yes, they offered all the modalities when we had our first meeting, and we made a choice that they didn’t “recommend,” though they really knew little about the research– we had to find that ourselves). Unfortunately, the kids in B-bi and TC programs are rarely around typically speaking peers, so they don’t have the models needed to encourage speech. My son went to an ordinary preschool. He could do this because he was caught up, expressively and receptively by about 2. His case is not exceptional; there are many little babies that are doing exactly the same thing when implanted in infancy.
In the end, the deaf culture can argue and argue this point from now until eternity, but the choice is for the parents, and we have overwhelmingly chosen to allow our children to listen and speak. Arguing with AG Bell will not change our mind! Over the years I’ve met countless parents who, when meeting my sons, decided that this is the route for their children. These kids are now successfully hearing and speaking, and going on to show others how well deaf children can hear and talk today!
I believe that the deaf culture’s stance against us will serve to inform the public of only one thing– that deaf adults who oppose implantation and speaking don’t really want what is best for deaf kids. So go ahead, make your views known.
I would liike to order tee shirts but I cannot go agBAAD!
Please do send paypal link! Looking forward to order tee shirts!
Same here Cy..I am usually a nice person but when reading Amy’s comments I became a bit annoyed and here is why:
1. “.. those of us with deaf children of our own would perhaps have chosen to teach our children the English language starting from birth..â€.
Sorry Amy, chosing to teach our deaf children English as a first language is not as complete and accessible as it is when teaching ASL. Deaf babies don’t usually receive a cochlear implant until the age 2 or so (average speaking) missed out the critical language learning period that they are already delayed not only in language but cognition. Even CI and hearing aids will not correct the problem. I have seen so many of them with CI coming to school with no language during preschool age but got to gradually develop a language while my deaf children, now ages 8 and 9, already have language when they attended pre-school. They are already advanced and ready to learn to read and write since they already have content knowledge.
Actually to learn a language naturally, it has to be acquired, not taught. My two deaf children whose first language is ASL were able to go through smooth transistion from L1 to L2. This theory has been supported in multiple research findings. They excel in English through reading and writing and are making great progress. Their percentile scores are 99% as indicated in the SAT. Their reading level is above grade level and writing level at par. As a teacher of the deaf, for them to acquire English starting from birth is not realistic because the communication access is not 100 percent. Babies cannot learn to read and even lipreading yet. These components have to be taught, not acquired, hence making it not natural.
2. “Signing with hearing babies, while a fun fad that the bored suburbanite mother does with her time, is not the same in any way as encouraging a deaf infant to overemphasize his or her visual sense when the auditory sense is the one which is needing stimulationâ€.
Actually, it is not a fun fad. It is becoming popular because research shows that there is an increase of 16 points in I.Q. tests. Let me tell you that I noticed hearing children of deaf adults (CODA) tended to make advanced academic progress than children who know one language. Also why limit to one language? Cognitive thinking skills are much more advanced in bilingual children as studies have proven.
3. “Fortunately, with today’s technology, deaf children can become hearing all of their waking hours â€
This is a red flag because if you took cochlear implant consultant’s advice like Mary Koch who mentioned that parents who think that having their deaf children implanted mean they will be hearing are not making this choice for the right reason.
4. †The statistics show that hearing parents (who study hard) reach about a preschool level of ability in sign language. This would be terribly stunting for a deaf child, who would never be able to discuss philosophical issues that come up even in the preschool years.â€
Where did you get that? This is not true at all. I have come to know hearing parents who are motivated and immersed themselves in ASL environment mastered in ASL. Even several of them became teachers of the deaf and interpreters. It is even more terribly stunting for a deaf child not to have complete access to a language, especially English that is not a visual language, so exposing them signs help them to pick up English eventually. As a teacher, I have come to known wonderful hearing parents making a great deal of effort to communicate with their deaf children that they are able to discuss philosophical issues. God bless them!
5. “Our kids talk like any other kids and frequently astound those who meet them because they can live their life just like any other kid, without concerns for translators, captioning, TTYs and all of the other things which previous generations had to worry about.â€
My deaf children can live their life just like any other hearing or implanted kids, too. There is no way that any implanted kids can understand 100 percent when watching TV with no captions, talking with people in a group, and on a phone. CI kids are not getting the message 100 percent like hearing kids especially when they get older as language becomes more complex. I know for sure that my deaf children get 100 percent when discussing in a group, talking on a TTY or a videophone, and watching TV with captions (captions helped them develop vocabulary and they are terrific spelling bees.)
6. “So go ahead, protest, but I guarantee if the media interviews a kid like mine, they will convince almost every TV watcher out there that organizations like AG Bell are doing a great work. You can’t fight the great progress that they are doing, or the wonderful successes of thousands of implanted kids who hear whispers and score nearly 100% in the soundbootâ€.
Don’t be so sure Amy. I also have successful deaf children who are not implanted that will convince every TV watcher out there that bilingual is doing a great work. Oh yes I can show it to the world and you can’t fight that either. For implanted kids who hear whipsers, so what? It is not as important as being skilled in literacy. By the way, didn’t you know that a 7 year-old CI girl died last January according to CBS news article?
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/1998/06/02/sunday/main10794.shtml
As far as I have known, there are already 14 deaths among deaf children with implants. I don’t even think it is worth the risk! I hope nothing like this will happen to your sons but you can’t guarantee that it won’t.
7. †can easily locate and show you studies which show the exact opposite of what you are claiming. Bilingual education results in poor literacy skills and educational levels. I have seen the listening and speaking skills of kids in BI-bi and TC programs, and there is no comparison to the language and vocabulary of orally educated kids.â€
I can easily show you that orally educated kids are way behiind than bilingual kids. Bilingual education results in poor literacy skills? Where do you get that? First of all, bilingual education is not common across America since most deaf education program just had a jump start and statistics are not out yet about the studies of bilingual education. However, as a teacher, I have already seen the positive results. We need to be careful to identify which program is bilingual because some of the programs actually don’t meet the definition of bilingual education. For example, if you go in a classroom where a teacher is using simcom, that is not bilingual. Bilingual education has certain strategies and practices that most teachers of the deaf are not trained well. If you look at deaf ed programs, there are only two programs (as far as I know) in America providing bilingual instructional methods. Gallaudet University just started to offer bilingual training and workshops just a few years ago. This field is starting to be out in the open so we cannot jump to conclusion that it fails.
8. “I am against my sons using sign language because I am a proponent of them having the most opportunities in life. Simple as that. I don’t want them to have to be griping on some blog someday about how mean the movie industry is for not captioning, or how the doctor they chose didn’t have an interpreter worth a darn when an emergency arose.â€
This is really sad for you to be against your sons using sign language. You are treating this language like it is a taboo. ASL is a beautiful language and it is a terrible thing to waste. I am not against anyone who is able to speak. My daughter (who is profoundly deaf) is motivated to learn to talk with her hearing aids while my son is not. Every child is different but to snatch ASL away from them is inhumane. Like Cy, I don’t know which planet you are from but there are FCC and ADA laws making communication access possible especially here in America.
9. “I know thousands of kids just like mine, who every day talk and listen and enjoy movies and phone calls and music… and were born deaf.â€
I know thousands if not millions of kids who don’t use cochlear implant have the same opportunity to enjoy movies, phone calls and even music. It doesn’t have to be a CI person to enjoy these only.
My non-implanted deaf children are leading completely normal lives too. Although they are still young, I have taught them ways to communicate with hearing people and it is not even a problem. They know that writing becomes so important to master since they will be able to order anything or even have a dialogue with people who don’t know sign language. I am just grateful that there are nice open minded hearing people who want to learn sign language or who attempted to use gestures to communicate with them. Literacy, not speech, is the priority for my deaf children. Thank you for listening.
Hi Amy,
I grew up oral, I went to school at the age of 3, I had to undergo extensive speech/auditory therapy and wear hearing aids at all times.
Now then I look back, I feel it was a total waste of my time, I wish I had been exposed to ASL, it would have liberated me from all that speech/auditory training. Believe me, it is a lot of hard work on a very young child. Hearing children don’t have to go through all of this kind of thing.
I have deaf friends who also have deaf children, they have almost perfect speech, their first language is ASL, they can speak very well, so what John is mentioning that if you have both ASL and speech instruction in the school, it will be successful because it is easier on the deaf child.
Many of these deaf children will graviate towards ASL when they get older so why cannot we introduce ASL to them when they first arrive to the world.
Alexander Graham Bell was misguided when it came in working with deaf people, his deaf wife was isolated and rarely mingled around with other deaf people, and I don’t know why he felt this way since he had a deaf mother and a deaf wife, why he would want deaf children to suffer under speech/auditory therapy alone. This all does not make any sense to me.
One day, your deaf child will come to you and ask you why they were born deaf, what kind of answer will you provide to them? I remember asking my mom why I was born deaf, she said she didn’t know why and she wanted me to learn how to speak so that I could function better in the world. But I asked, how come it is so hard to do that when my hearing brother didn’t have to go through all of it, she had no answer for me. I tried making friends with the hearing neighbor kids, it was hard but when deaf friends came by, I was absolutely thrilled and wanted to play with them for hours to end. Don’t get me wrong, I have nothing against hearing people, it is just that when I was with my deaf friends, I felt I could be “myself”, not to have to struggle in making my hearing friends understand or listen to them or whatever. Hide-o-seek was the hardest game for me to play because I would always lose. There are some things deaf people have a harder time when it comes in playing in the hearing world.
I encourage you to talk to your children how they feel about being deaf and all these questions, they need to talk about it and to develop self-identity and feel good about themselves. I appreciate you coming in Deafread and sharing your opinions, we need more hearing parents to share and listen to one another.
Amy,
I need to response to your claim that bilingual and TC programs failed which is not true at all. It was simply because they NEVER received formal and appropriate training on how to teach Deaf children bilingually (ASL and English). In addition to that, there are many tecahers of Deaf children in so called bilingual/TC programs who think English is superior than ASL. That is the problem. We strongly believe that Deaf children should be GIVEN an opportunity to learn both languages in order to become more successful.
At our school, 90% of our students who passed the California High School Exit Exam came from both Deaf parents who use ASL from birth and Hearing parents who learned ASL right away and was able to expose their Deaf children with ASL as well. We were never given an opportunity to show that kind of data and now we will.
Amy, you need to be careful what you say. I live, sleep, and breath in the Deaf world and you don’t. While I am glad that you think your children are doing normally, too many Deaf children who were dumped into bilingual programs because they were failed in the oral programs. And now we have to deal with the damages they received from oral programs just because they were denied an access to ASL. That is totally wrong.
Regardless what you say about the demonstration next week, we will be heard and we will not back down until we receive equal respect and treatment.
Amy,
Be careful what you say about “Fortunately, with the Today’s Technology, deaf children can become hearing with all of their waking hours.”
Do you really want all of us with the CIs can become hearing? That is really your imagination. That is not true at all.
Research yourself on the percentages on these CIs children who live with 20+ years and find out yourself.
I do not see any differences about the accomplishments on CIs. There are many children who have lived with CIs for 20+ years are considered themselves that they are deaf and use sign language.
Come on, Amy, don’t be biased.
White Ghost
Hello Amy,
I grew up oral and I second with Michelle’s comments about her struggled and wasted time focus on speech only without ASL and education material. It was happening to me the same thing what she went through since I was about 4. It was really totally waste my time on focus on speech! I learned english when I went to Gally. My mother was sorry about that and she wish that I learned ASL at the first place. I learned ASL when I went to Gally. ASL is true beautiful language because it’s easy to understand the concept. Please give your sons a chance to learn ASL. Your sons will thank you for that. If not, your sons will probably think that you didn’t accept them that they were deaf. Your sons always stay deaf no matter what. Think about it.
Thank you for reading this.
Sincerely,
Kathy
Amy, in response to this:
“I can easily locate and show you studies which show the exact opposite of what you are claiming. Bilingual education results in poor literacy skills and educational levels…”
I’m interested in seeing those studies. Please provide them.
Thank you.
Amy,
You state, “I can easily locate and show you studies which show the exact opposite of what you are claiming.” Would you please do so and publish the links to those studies here? I’d be very interested in reading them.
Amy,
What are these studies you say you can so easily locate? I don’t think they exist, unless of course they are funded by AG Bell.
Please produce them.
Thanks,
Crys
Dear Amy…I really wish you could meet me in person.
You would never know I was profoundly deaf. Seriously.
And yet, I have concluded that it was a great disservice to me to deprive me of sign language as a child.
Now stop and think, if I — AS ONE OF THOSE “DEAF BABIES” — tell you this after LIVING THIS LIFE — which you will never do — then perhaps you should really sit down and stop and think about this.
Teaching ASL will not stop the child from learning what English he or she can. But not teaching ASL will guarantee that the child is stuck with a native language that they cannot fully utilize. I have a constant, lifelong battle of arranging literally everything in my life so I have the best chance of understanding what people say. I also have dealt with, all my life, people who conclude I am a complete idiot because my speech is such that they never think I’m deaf — so when I don’t understand them, it’s because I am STUPID.
Your children will get this too, no matter what. Give them ASL *as well* so they will know from the start what it means to be fully included in a conversation. Don’t let them wait forty years, as I did, to participate in a conversation on a fully equal footing with another person.
(And even then I’m not quite there because I’m not a native ASL speaker, and I still have a long way to go.)
You may be the mother of these children, but WE WERE THOSE CHILDREN. That’s why we can speak with greater authority.
Response to Amy
For some reason, your son’s inside of ear is screwed up and not hear at all by CI then you will be so damn freak out that your son couldnt hear from you or anyone anymore. It is more safe for you both learn ASL before it is too late. Think twice!
Long Live ASL
Amy,
“Why children die?” is NOT a philosophy discussion. ASL users do ask the same questions, Amy. You seem to think ASL children are unintelligent. I taught kingergarten at a school for the deaf with ASL students. They ask many questions similiar to that. They are not classified as philosophical thinking process but a general question classified as a natural curiosity and inquiries about life. ALL children inquire about life and that is not philosophy.
Philosophy is an of ambigious metaphysical thinking process. Generally, one reaches the ability to philosophize around tween age, not preschool age.
What you take us for? A bunch of dimwitteds? Because we use ASL?
As for not needing assistive devices or services, eventually your children WILL use them. Right now, it seems you are the one who determine they don’t need them. They might decide differently when they are older.
A lot of kids who are not CI users can orally order items from a restaurant menu as well, in case you don’t realize. I can, too. I just point to what I want to order. Simple, isn’t it?
Amy, allow me share a story with you and you be the judge.
When my oldest son was adoped at age 3, he didn’t have any formal language when he came home from Korea. Within 3 months, he asked me if he grew in my tummy as we read the book, “How was I adopted?”. He fully understood that he did not grow in my tummy - he had a long, long and heartbreaking cry. He truly wanted to be part of me. Thank God for the wealth information on the internet, I explained to my son that he grew in my heart from the momment I saw the picture of him. Now, he is actually here with me - he is born from my heart. What a huge smile from him! He proudly announced to everyone that he was born from my heart!
We both are profoundly Deaf - we communicate fluently in ASL. My son acquired ASL very quickly and was able to ask deep-philosopical questions within 3 mos! And my other 2 children are also adopted at age 3, and they are not interested in adoption story yet. It does not mean that they are less smart than their oldest brother. They have acquired ASL quickly - and they all are at the par with any other children. ASL make a huge difference in their lives.
You be the judge of our story. My oldest son is in public school with awesome interpreters and TOD service, and he is at grade level in all subjects. His primary langauge is ASL since he was 3 yrs old. At the school, he communicates in ASL and read/write in English. He does not have any speech service since it’s not relevant to his literacy skills. He has many Deaf friends, and hearing friends who can sign.
W/O speech, CI, and hearing aid, he functions same as his hearing peers. He reads 6 mos ahead of his hearing peers due to closed captioned TV shows, and his love for books. Spelling tests - he always got 100% on it.
Hope my story make a difference in your viewpoints, ASL is essential tool to all children with hearing loss. Try to view it as a TOOL where your sons can learn and appreciate. Just like any child who has CI - it’s just a TOOL for them to expand thier auditory skills.
Thanks, Kim
Amy,
Really, don’t waste your breath. All of these deaf people berating you really don’t understand the difference between them and your kids is that your kids can hear! It’s not just that they can speak — they can hear AND play hide-and-seek and any other games their hearing friends can play. Your kids have a choice in becoming bilingual — they don’t have to learn ASL, they can learn to speak French or Spanish or Chinese if they wish. Can the ASL users? Of course you love your kids and accept them the way they are, but it is also clear that you love them enough to give them wings and the gift of hearing, not shackling them by limiting them. If deaf people don’t want to believe your kids can function like hearing kids, well, tough. You don’t need them… and some day your kids won’t be asking you why you decided to have them implanted — they’ll be asking why those signing deaf kids didn’t have parents who cared enough to get them implanted.
Whew.
I dont even know where to begin. Im just going to say I grew up in a world where everyone wanted me to be hearing. I succeeded.
And I was freaking miserable.
Rather than explain all over again I’m just going to re-post an excerpt of something I posted in the “Random Thoughts and Musings” blog. It’s something I wrote mostly in response to Amy Cohen Efron’s remarks about unconditional acceptance. Here it is:
****
I will never forget the day I was asked - at the last minute - to do a presentation with a group of hard of hearing kids at a family learning vacation. I decided to just go with a rap session and those kids touched my heart with their comments. They were HOH kids ages 10-13 and they pretty much echoed everything you said in your response.
They admitted faking their way through interactions with their families and other hearing people because well, thats what they thought their families wanted: for them to be hearing.
I did the same thing myself for many years. I much rather would’ve had unconditional acceptance, as you so beautifully pointed out.
But no, I and countless other deaf/HOH kids had to put on not just our hearing aids, but our hearing MASKS.
If only people in the hearing world could understand how much hard work it takes to be something we are not. In fact, let me hop off this soapbox and leave you with this powerful quote (one of my favorites) from e.e. cummings:
The hardest fight a man has to fight is to live in a world where every single day someone is trying to make you someone you do not want to be.
Best regards,
Mark
Amy,
You have failed to show your source to support your claim as follows:
“I can easily locate and show you studies which show the exact opposite of what you are claiming. Bilingual education results in poor literacy skills and educational levels…â€
French Tutor
I see this typical statement often such as: “I can show you studies….” Yet, it’s all talk. If she does not show you studies that refutes what the majority on this blog are saying, then, she is just lying through her teeth. That, in itself tells us a lot about her.
One comment Amy made about being hearing “during all waking hours”. Oh, so while her sons sleeps, the CI is turned off, they are therefore deaf temporarily - And she calls that hearing? They’re deaf with or without a CI. Amy is one of these parents who refuses to approach any thing with an open mind and that is scarey. Many things she brought up tells me she does not know a lot about deaf people, nor is she well versed in the statistics involving deaf. I think she is just ranting senselessly.
Amy, Amy, Amy. You are so wrong.
First off, THANK YOU for coming to the Deaf blogs to express your opinions! But what you have to realize is that all these bloggers here are not aliens from outer space, but YOUR CHILDREN 20, 30, 40 years down the road. They have been what your children have been through and what they WILL go through. If you don’t listen to them, you will regret it. You’ll hear it 20, 30, 40 years from now FROM THEM.
As much as “the experts” have to say, most of them don’t have to actually experience what it is to be Deaf. These people HAVE. Your children WILL. You should trust them, at least as much as “the experts.”
“The statistics show that hearing parents (who study hard) reach about a preschool level of ability in sign language. ”
And this is an excuse for WHAT?? You not TRYING to learn ANY Sign Language AT ALL??? Give it a try! Learn all you can! You’ll be much richer for it! (I’m Hearing. I know. I started at 39 years old. You can do it if you try!!!)
“I am against my sons using sign language because I am a proponent of them having the most opportunities in life. ”
Then why DEPRIVE them of Sign??? Why does it have to be an “either/or” situation? Why not BOTH??? Many Hearing Parents of Deaf look upon the Deaf Culture like they are giving their children to the Moonies or Hare Krishnas.
This is so wrong. Hearing parents of Deaf should look to the Deaf Community as a millions-strong SUPPORT GROUP for their child. Imagine, God forbid, your child had been a victim of sexual molestation by a stranger. Would you forbid your child to reach out to other victims for support?
Well, every member of the Deaf community is a victim of Audism. And, like it or not, no matter how well your child fits into Hearing society, your children WILL BE victims of Audism. Shouldn’t they have the right to reach out to other victims and bond with them?
Whether you like it or not, your children WILL become part of the Deaf Community, because they are Deaf. They WILL learn how to Sign, despite your best efforts. You can continue to REJECT this or EMBRACE it. I suggest that you learn to embrace it or you will be fighting forever against a part of their IDENTITY that they DESERVE.
Hearing babies can learn sign…because it advances their ENGLISH vocabuary,..but Deaf babies ARE NOT SUPPOSED to learn ASL sign because it will RETARD their English vocabulary?
Whooooooooa, here!!
I’m losin’ something here with this “logic!!”
Ken, there are already kids who are successful CI users from the “early” days that are happy and haven’t divorced their parents. They do not feel the need to be engaged in the Deaf Culture because their life is about so much more than deafness. We have a close relationship with our kids, and it’s pretty mean to suggest that our kids will hate us. It’s just another example of wishing us ill– something I’m getting used to.
Jean, bilingualism is useful in circumstances where the child is the deaf child of deaf adults who use ASL. It is, of course, useful for hearing people to know two oral languages, as well. However, the research regarding neural pathways clearly points to the fact that a deaf child who is learning to speak is at risk of overemphasizing their visual sense in the early years of plasticity. I have seen and heard these kids at camps and various CI related events over the years. They are not CI “failures” so much as they are kids whose parents hedged their bets and now they have a bit of two languages but not a lot of either.
The research also clearly points out how difficult it is to learn a second language in adulthood; thus, the parents will never be fluent enough to have real, complex language. “More” and “cookies” is not a language. Most people who happen to give birth to a deaf child didn’t learn ASL, and despite intense work would never be able to model correct language (since it is a very different language from English).
I was a philosophy major, as well as an English lit major. I’m sorry Cy, but children do as philosophical questions. But whatever YOU want to call them, a hearing parent who studies ASL will not be able to answer those kinds of questions for years. This will stunt the child’s growth.
I’ll be happy to provide the links to the research. I have already provided some of it on another website. Anu Sharma has some of the recent stuff about neural pathways. But there is quite a bit even from a decade ago.
All of this has encouraged me to add more than just our story to our boys’ website. I believe it’s time to add some quotes from the deaf culture– what they say about us parents and our children. I would never, ever presume to say the things that you all feel is OK to say. I think it will be an eye opener to parents of the newly diagnosed. Personally, I was offered all communication choices when my first son was diagnosed as profoundly deaf, and it was months later that I realized there was some rude behavior in the deaf culture toward parents who chose to teach their kids orally. Now, perhaps, some will know more quickly and it will help them avoid the people who would criticize them.
Thanks, Elly! I appreciate your comments. We have thousands of visitors a year to our website, so I am hoping that it makes more of an impact than these kinds of blogs. I have only been reading them for a couple of months and already I can see that it is fruitless to defend our choices!
Amy,
Instead of reading blogs from Deaf people and attack them with your comments, why don’t you write a blog?
We are not biased and parents can teach their deaf children speech/oral.
It is you and AG Bell that are biased about not having deaf babies to learn any signs when they could while they haven’t develop the speech capability just yet.
It seems that you have an irrationality problem so please stay out of Deafread.com.
Hello Amy,
May I ask you where the side you fell to at first time you learned that your children are Deaf? The Doctors/ Audiologists, I bet.
Pathologically’s perspective is not a form of GOD who think can solve any differs from majority of “normal” that Hearing people called. They are just people that think they can treat or solve the differ you may call to.
NO matter what or how much your children can hear, ur children is still deaf because its bascially “Cyborg” on the heads of your children. When they approach their teenage years, their peers will see the different in them and give them hard time.
Which is not a great idea to waste time to struggles and so on.
To have an excellence in education is to have conveyor of books.
Thanks,
A gallaudetian, Keith Doane