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Is Oral an Accessory
By egbertpress | February 19, 2007
Topics: Uncategorized | 28 Comments »
« I am just a Guinea Pig | Home | It is the IDEOLOGY! »
By egbertpress | February 19, 2007
Topics: Uncategorized | 28 Comments »
February 19th, 2007 at 5:59 pm
Using the foundation of the house as an analogy is beautiful
February 19th, 2007 at 6:42 pm
You’ve made the point that oral is an incomplete vehicle that can only go one way, and that ASL is a two way street. Absolutely accurate. It is a valuable accessory but still only an accessory, useful in some situations, but not itself adequate for language development.
February 19th, 2007 at 6:43 pm
This is very good explanation. I agree with Mishka that your anaology of foundation. And I believe this vlog is important to all hearing parents to know about ASL and accessory.
February 19th, 2007 at 6:54 pm
Wow what a powerful presentation you offered. I hope your vlog will reach out to hearing parents of deaf children. Too many times, hearing parents have false hopes and are desperate for anything to make their child normal.
February 19th, 2007 at 7:37 pm
John! Your explanation is power that experiences on Human beings.
Thank you!
Tissa
February 19th, 2007 at 7:54 pm
Powerful message, John!
February 19th, 2007 at 8:35 pm
John, your explanation is perfecto! It is very clearly how important ASL is for the Deaf children. I agree with you that when Deaf children get to 18 years old, they would face many different languages and realize they have to find right group to be fit in. Your explanation about foundation of house are a very good example!
Thank you for sharing with us!
Toby
February 19th, 2007 at 8:53 pm
Well said; however, you forgot something crucial. Cochlear implants. Oralism is no longer an one way street for current deaf children who are implated as early as age 1. I have seen with my own eyes on how they are able of hearing and understanding speakers without using their eyes. I have a daughter who was implanted at age 2 and she is able of understnading her grandma from her back while in the car. She responds accurately. Oralism of your time and Oralism of current time are so different.
February 19th, 2007 at 9:20 pm
Your message is beautiful and powerful.
February 19th, 2007 at 9:29 pm
Well said! They should realize that ASL is a true language but they are the ones who are really deaf to our voices, our needs, our language, and our cultre. English is the other language that Deaf people cherish. Keep up.
February 19th, 2007 at 9:34 pm
Nan,
Yes, I have heard that about CI. I am one of the few (hearing aid user) that can pick up what some close friends say in the back of the car…..only certain friends that I know their voice well. (I am 90DB)
But we need to wait til those kids are 18 before we can say that they (CI) still want to adapt the verbal interacting world.
The thing about ASL, it is a language that has 100% chance of success of normal communication interaction while trying to learn the verbal interacting is a gamble, so why not just have ASL and then have CI if you wish.
John
February 19th, 2007 at 9:39 pm
Nan’s post was interesting but I feel that it had nothing to do with the subject at hand. When the daughter takes off her CI she is as deaf as the rest of us. A CI is ALSO an accessory. “Whatever works”.
February 19th, 2007 at 10:17 pm
Nan–your child is indeed RARE. I’ve been teaching Deaf students for nearly 11 years now. I’ve seen only ONE C.I. student like your daughter. I’ve had at least 50 C.I students and have observed many more in various settings–including at oral schools. In all of my observations, and in fact this has been validated by research–Deaf students with C.I.s that ALSO use ASL are far more successful than those that are raised orally only.
February 19th, 2007 at 10:44 pm
To watch you as a former oralist sharing your experience and thoughts, that is really powerful! Without doubt, there are many oralists with lost souls out there right now. We need to reach them and have them share their experience as well. They will indeed make our case stronger that Deaf education should be taught with ASL centered perspective. After that, English comes in second and then accessories come after that!
February 20th, 2007 at 12:40 am
Nan,
With my hearing aids, I too am very adept at speaking/hearing people without lipreading. In fact, I used to work at Burger King taking orders through the drive-thru in very noisy environments (although it is pretty dumb to put a deaf person at the drive-thru… what were they thinking??). However, I still have some difficulty understanding those with accents or in a large group. After growing up oral, I went to Gallaudet and realized how much I was really missing. I threw out my voice and my hearing aids in favor of a 100% accessible language: ASL. Oralism of my time and current times are not so different.
February 20th, 2007 at 1:28 am
It’s true! I’ve been raised Oral and later learn SEE(sign exact english) for so long. Once I learned ASL from Gallaudet. I never realize how much ASL is a true way to actual interacting and a true way of two way streets. To me, Oral is one way street based on my experience. Now, I know so much about ASL and I notice it is a real foundation for that.
February 20th, 2007 at 2:01 am
Very good! When I first came to live in the United States at age 10, my first American teacher was Miss Sarah E. Quinn, a CODA (we didn’t have this label back in 1963 so we just said her parents were Deaf….). I quickly acquired both ASL and the English language from her because we had “after school” tutorials. I was very lucky because she also noticed that I loved reading. She began immediately to require me to read stories and discuss them with her during our tutorials. Although I had good language foundations in the counrty of my birth, The Netherlands, I learned how to learn new languages, ASL and English, through Miss Quinn who was a native user of ASL…and English, too!
February 20th, 2007 at 3:59 am
CI is murder….Kids under one or over of age brain stull is still growing. It will be very risk … infections even death. If born deaf leave it be.. CI should be BANNED I have a friend try CI on thier child and It killed her .. Children shouldnt be play with as experiment We are humans not robots.
P.S. Even the child had thier shots updated. Its still RISK. Its not win/win its lose lose / win
February 20th, 2007 at 7:19 am
My hearing friend works as a tutor to a Deaf child with CI and also an ASL teacher for the hearing students in her class at High School. She shared her concerns with me about how hard for her to work with the Deaf child with CI knowing that he is a child that is left behind.
One day, She decided to use ASL to this child behind his mother’s back. He opens his eyes so wide. But he immediately said, “Please don’t use any sign or my mom will be so angry with me.”
My other hearing friend works as an interpreter. She has to interpret for a Deaf adult who just got cochlear implant at the agency that trains children or adults to learn to speech or to listen. The Deaf adult met an 11-month deaf baby ’s mother and mother asked many questions to the Deaf adult. While my friend interpreted, she saw the baby’s eyes looking at her interpreter’s hands and the hunger in the baby’s eyes.
It really hit on my friend so hard in order for her to stay in a role of interpreting because the Deaf adult was lying to her 11 month baby’s mother how much it changed the Deaf adult’s life when the Deaf adult got cochlear implant. The irony is she used the interpreter to translate for her to mother. She couldn’t speak very well and couldn’t identify sound.
My friend also was so tempted to show her 11 month Deaf baby’s mother that Deaf baby’s eyes are looking at the interpreter’s sign passionately.
I have nothing to against about learning speeches or whatever, but the foundation is so important for babies to learn ASL.
Nan- I know you want the best for your daughter but how much did your daughter miss since she was born until she got cochlear implant. She had to go through the training and things like that before she was able to understand the language of receiving and giving.
Aidan
February 20th, 2007 at 8:57 am
To CI:
I hear that all the time – especially from people who tried to convince me NOT to get CI when I wanted it with statements like yours: “It kills!! Don’t do it!! It is MURDER! I know somebody’s friend/child who died from it…”
Yet they NEVER gave me proof of that. No confirmed sources, nothing – all hearsay.
Over 80,000 have been implanted for what, 30 years? You’d think there would be lawsuits for deaths by now, eh?
“Kids under one or over of age brain stull is still growing..â€
The cochlea in the ear NEVER changes growing up. It is already an adult size at birth and will not change at all.
“CI BANNED?†– not for those hearing people who lost their hearing and have already lived their lives and they are the ones who benefit the most from this than deaf adults like myself.
But I do NOT think it CAN replace ASL in order to give the child full access to a language – as far as feeling at ease when in a group of people talking, as much as many try to dispute that.
I agree with John – though he hasn’t said it, but CI is an ACCESSORY.
I couldn’t live entirely on CI without sign language. Nope. Sign language (I can’t say ASL because I’d be lying since I use PSE) gives me full access. I know who I am and an accessory does not make me somebody else.
I think it’s time for the Deaf people to get certified as “deaf-audiologists†or “deaf-signing therapistsâ€.
I know a few parents who refused to abide by their speech-therapists’ recommendations on not using ASL for their CI children and found it to be very beneficial for their children.
I don’t understand why there haven’t been publicly reported on those CI children who aren’t “doing well†as “should haveâ€.
Either we report or we wait until CI children reaches to their adulthood to share their stories.
February 20th, 2007 at 9:24 am
To IamMine,
Thank you for giving information about to clear up some facts about CI.
Regarding about PSE, there many, many Deaf people that use PSE. Why?
they know two language and when communicating with two language at the same time it increases your data flow! I do too, sometime I use pure ASL, or English or both……
When two hearing people know two language (et: English/French), they will verbally communicate each other in mixed combine of the two language because one language can explain better than the other in shorter time……hence, it increases the data flow rate.
John F. Egbert
February 20th, 2007 at 10:12 am
Very interesting — I have a similar profile as yours (90db, can sometimes hear what people say without looking at them under ideal conditions) and yet here I am (better late than never) learning ASL now.
This video would be an excellent one for parents, and as such, I suggest subtitling it or providing it with a transcript. We could be building a body of material for the hearing parents of a deaf child to find when searching for more information in the coming years…
February 20th, 2007 at 10:25 am
Beg,
Yes, I have given myself a lot of thoughts about how to proceed having the Vlogs to be understandable for the hearing parents of Deaf children which is my main goal, hence, the MindField book.
Subtitling is a pain in the a&s. It takes a lot of time. But every problem has a solution…. it’s coming soon as I am working on it right now.
John
February 20th, 2007 at 11:29 am
That’s why I also suggested a transcript — would be much faster to write up a translation and post that with the vlog than to try and subtitle directly onto the vlog, which is terribly time consuming. Plus a transcript is searcheable on keywords, whereas even though I believe google is working on being able to search through captions/subtitles in their videos, that’s a ways off too.
February 20th, 2007 at 11:41 am
Beg,
Yes, that is one of the two projects that I am working on. I wished that I was at home now but I am babysitting my 15 month old deaf grandson, Xavier, all day today which I do Tuesdays and Thursdays. I have a Mac laptop which I got with me all the time to keep up with Deafread.com and use a Mac Pro at home because it can hold a lot of memories for Vlogging, etc. So I will start on it when I get home tonite.
p.s. you can see Xavier on one of my monitors in the Vlog on this post.
February 20th, 2007 at 5:57 pm
Hi John,
I enjoy watching your vlog about the relevancy of having ASL as a foundation to enable deaf children’s language development and how oralism remains an accessory.
I love it how you echoed the message on not leaving ASL behind as mentioned in my previous vlog. I am glad to see that you are working on developing ways for hearing parents to have access to your critical messages. Keep on going!
December 22nd, 2007 at 4:04 pm
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January 29th, 2009 at 5:14 pm
This is for Nan…when your daughter’s CI is off, she is a deaf child…if it’s broken, how do you communicate? If she goes swimming, she’s deaf. When she takes a bath, she’s deaf Think about those small things…that’s the foundation…the small things crack the foundation.