A Question for DBC and Deaf Community
For DBC and Deaf Community,
“Will this Presentation help hearing parents of deaf babies and children understand the situation better?”
1:37 minutes long
Download the PDF file here.
Below is the snapshot of DBC’s website, and look at the lower left corner which indicate this pdf file is stored on DBC’s web server.
October 23rd, 2008 at 6:29 pm
Amy,
This transcription has me puzzled. It doesn’t make any sense. What has 9/11 related to what?!? That lost me at some point.
DBC and CAD….I hope you’re going to answer the question.
Misha
October 23rd, 2008 at 6:48 pm
It’s well-written and clear. If presented to parents as the voice of the culturally Deaf, it becomes one of several windows to understand the situation.
DBC never intended to be neutral nor unbiased, so it posts pieces like this to support ASL from a cultural viewpoint. As a balance to the equally biased viewpoint of the AVT philosophy, it is useful.
It is necessary to just accept DBC as they are: unabashedly pro-Deaf Culture, while they advocate adding ASL to AVT programs and aren’t about abolishing AVT.
What will be helpful is pulling together these different philosophies into one website with links so that people have an opportunity to sample each. A comprehensive commentator could insert remarks that help orient new parents to understand the full spectrum of deaf education.
October 23rd, 2008 at 7:08 pm
It is obvious that you did not understand his speech. You need someone to help you and interpret in ASL for you…perhaps that would help you to understand his interpretation. I understood him. You need to change your warped thinking…what hearing people think…what hearing people view of us…what hearing people will say about us…hearing people…hearing people…hearing people. You poisoned DBC’s reputation for many months due to your jealousy…now look at Supernanny on TV program…you handwaved and said it was four stars program…see we ignored what hearing people think etc…unlike you did and we won!! Now you shut up!
October 23rd, 2008 at 7:21 pm
For those who are interested in what I have to say about this, I left a video comment at DVTV - http://www.deafvideo.tv/video/watch/27756/#comment-133573
October 23rd, 2008 at 7:29 pm
Penny, I am puzzled by your stressing hearing people like they are our enemies. Seeing that 95% of the parents of deaf babies/children are hearing, isn’t DBC trying to educate these people?
By the way, please do elaborate why you think Amy’s thinking is warped.
October 23rd, 2008 at 8:28 pm
:-/…….
Nothing changes.
How can DBC expect 95% hearing parents of deaf child to understand our deaf culture and preservability?
I have never read the DBC’s blog until I read yours….
95% hearing parents of deaf child/children *will* not understand the DBC’s efforts. Never will. Even…..many years…….95%, going on 96%, going on 97% and….so forth.
DBC will have a long, long, long, long, way to go….
I second to MishkaZena and Deafpundit.
Good thinking, Amy.
October 23rd, 2008 at 8:31 pm
My answer to your question is definitely no. Although there are some good points in the presentation, the style and tone need much work to do.
I believe in the freedom of speech and it is up to Mr. Richard Ray to express his opinion in whatever way he chooses. But, there is always consequence to his expression. The consequence, from my point of view, is that it will leave a bad impression on the hearing parents who choose ways that are different from his ideology.
I am somewhat puzzled by comment made by Dianrez (comment number 2 above). Where in the presentation did it give the impression that it was not intended to abolish AVT? The tone of the paragraph on IDEA does give a strong impression that Mr. Ray did not want AVT to exist. But, I may interpret his intention incorrectly and I am open to correction.
I am somewhat embarrassed by the analogy of 9/11 to the Milan Congress and IDEA. This logical fallacy is called “Extended Analogy” or “False Analogy”. This does not give any good impression on the presentation.
I could not find the source for the quotation about Confucius saying that communication is everything. Can anyone provide the source for it? If there is no source for it, it is yet another blemish on the presentation.
Still, it is Mr. Ray’s freedom to speak his mind and freedom is always a double-edged sword.
Joseph Pietro Riolo
josephpietrojeungriolo@gmail.com
Public domain notice: I put all of my expressions in this post in the public domain.
October 23rd, 2008 at 10:10 pm
Sadly, Richard Ray’s opening remarks read like a propaganda leaflet for a Deaf culture war against anything hearing. The 9/11 reference is an inappropriate one, considering that hearing parents have no inkling what Milan 1880 was and they’ll wonder what has this got to do with them? The 9/11 terrorist disaster of this century is a rather unfortunate and negative example to use. Just imagine what hearing parents are gonna think, “We’re the enemies???” Using this as an analogy will have hearing parents of deaf children running in the opposite direction.
“War”? Sheesh. All hearing parents of a deaf child want are ENCOURAGEMENT and SUPPORT, and what do they see on this site?
*shaking my head in wonderment*
October 23rd, 2008 at 11:55 pm
The correct link to the article of which that PDF was a sidebar is:
http://www.dbcusa.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=89&Itemid=1
Of course taking the PDF out of context allows you to continue to crab against a now-thriving organization that had the “gall” to succeed without you. No one should be surprised that your opinion becomes increasingly more negative as they continue to succeed despite you rather than because of you.
DBC is now helping hearing parents as you are clearly no longer able to due to your lasting bitterness. The Greatest Irony?
October 24th, 2008 at 3:57 am
I’ll keep telling you til I’m BLUE IN THE FACE: Why do Hearing parents of Hearing Parents of Deaf Babies accept the opinions of the so-called Hearing EXPERTS over the opinions of actual DEAF PEOPLE?
Who has the experience of actually BEING DEAF??? Why shouldn’t the people who have to LIVE through the “Communication Choices” count MORE???
October 24th, 2008 at 5:08 am
Amy, you have a personal vendetta against CAD and DBC people. Was it necessary for you to bring DBC into this discussion? Sigh. You disappoint me! People used to love you, but you disappoint a lot of people. Too much negativity in your life. Why don’t you write a better presentation? Focus on yourself and your community. Deaf people can have different approaches to educating the hearing community. CAD and DBC’s approach is fine. Your approach is fine, too. Leave them alone. You are practicing crab theory here.
October 24th, 2008 at 5:47 am
While I like and agree with DBC’s end goals, the execution needs to improve. This presentation doesn’t really attempt to build bridges to the parents and draws a hard line which makes them seem inflexible.
This approach has been tried so many times in the past and has always failed to make any headway into bringing about the desired change that DBC and many other culturally deaf people want. I believe that there needs to be softening up of the organization’s image to make DBC more approachable for parents so they can feel safe to talk and learn from DBC. The brand and image of DBC needs to be very carefully cultivated and developed.
Currently, CI/AVT are kicking our ass in this area because they are able to reassure the parents that they have the family’s best interest in mind and parents feel safe to take their advice. I don’t really see the same thing in this presentation. Hopefully DBC will be able to get past this and grow up and turn into a more effective organization.
October 24th, 2008 at 6:51 am
Susan –
I don’t think Amy has a personal vendetta against CAD and DBC people.
She was discussing about Richard Ray’s statement that left us wondering how can DBC promote to give the hearing parents of deaf child/children some options. DBC needs to work on to provide the hearing professionals and parents to attend the conference, as an example. It’s a long way to go at some point.
It’s about the logical and decision theory.
October 24th, 2008 at 7:26 am
Thank you Susan for saying it because I do not feel comfortable with these people who did not attend DBC or quit DBC . I strongly feel they should back off and leave DBC people do their job. Give them a big break! I have had trust in them of DBC.
First of all NAD and NTID did not listen to us and ignored our rights for years NAD did not do anything in the core of the Deaf community and ignored the Deaf leader that I know who will rolling his sleeves and get some actions. NAD, Gallaudet, NTID, and people with their own negative attitude who already have had their own personal vendetta against Matthew Scott Moore of Deaf.com for no reasons. He was rejected by the same people who are not growing up all along. If you are not willing to change then you ll lose in the end.
Lets us having our Deaf American’s Civil Rights Act. It s in http://www.deafnotes.com. I think it s the best thing to have our civil rights of the Deaf community. It s very important to have one in our Deaf community. So be it.
It s time for hearing parents to listen these Deaf people who was a deaf child with or without devices, themselves as well as we have the true fact of experiences that no one is willing to listen. It s so outrageous for not listening us and our true facts on the table already.
Too much damage toward Deaf babies and children’s metnal health that is too much abuses going on for so many years because hearing people thinks they know everything.Scoffs! There is no such thing about cure or miracle that is a big lie for so many years. I DO NOT TRUST MEDICAL issues. PERIOD!
I feel it needs to be said by me because I know the truth that people who are being so cruelty toward against Matthew Moore for nothing. What is your issue to reject me , Matthew and other who are not graduate from Gallaudet University. Sighs! Thats their attitude for so many years.
Thank you.
DeafSweetMind
October 24th, 2008 at 8:18 am
Wow. Ray is working too hard to please everyone.
Richard
October 24th, 2008 at 8:27 am
Hearing parents feel more comfortable listening to hearing medical professionals, simple as that. A lot of them have never met a deaf person before and that’s where we need to be more visible in that area. If you had a developmentally disabled child, who will you listen to? Would parents listen to adult developmentally disabled adults? Its the same thing, they think we are not intelligent or whatever. I know that gallaudet and bell had big arguments over oralism, they were cordial to each other, smart and talked nicely, it didn’t work! Sometimes being radical will turn heads around, we need a very creative approach somehow, its been going on way too long for now and deaf children are suffering. I also believe that if schools start hiring more deaf people to work there, the test scores will definotely improve, we need to be aggressive in promoting hiing of deaf people, eradriate audism, promote deaf awareness and then prove to hearing parents that it is the best education or not. Do you all think if we have a lot of deaf teachers, asl usage, and english, do you think deaf education will improve? If so then why don’t we try to work with schools in recruting more deaf people to be teachersm paraprofessionals and other positions in schools and work from there instead of fighting against hearing parents.
October 24th, 2008 at 8:52 am
We need to separate two things: what parents need and what we Deaf people want hearing people to know.
Parents have BIG needs and a huge task to accomplish: find out what to do for the benefit of their own deaf child. They are worried about everything: their child, their other family members, themselves, their future, financial and other costs, etc.
We Deaf want hearing people to know how painful it has been to live up to Hearing-decided goals and that we have a right to decide our own goals. We want them to know how dearly we cherish our community and our sign language and their benefits.
The two overlap somewhat, but the needs of the parents have to be met first before they can focus on helping their child. This is where DBC can help, but at this early stage in their development, do not yet make it.
DBC is too focused on themselves and the history of the Deaf community, and this can scare the parents who become tempted to write them off as “the past” and look to AGBell as “the future”.
Amy is right to ask if DBC’s approach is meeting parents’ needs. This can help make us think how to push DBC and other groups to a higher level of organizational maturity and be more effective help.
October 24th, 2008 at 9:01 am
Oops, left out one paragraph…
The same question can also be addressed to AGBell and other non-ASL philosophies. Are they truly meeting parents’ needs by limiting the input of Deaf adults?
October 24th, 2008 at 9:16 am
Comment »
October 24th, 2008 at 9:17 am
The pain the oral survivors experienced in the earlier days while growing up is profound. Nobody wants to deny the oral survivors the suffering they endured, not at all. In fact, it’s my opinion that the world needs to hear what countless deaf children endured being forced to learn a mostly inaccessible language while being deprived of language, communication, dignity, and respect. I personally think it’s a travesty that this language and communication abuse remain mostly unknown to this day as this is an abusive method to force most deaf children to rely on an ineffective organ despite a long well established record of failures. These practices indicate an incredible cruelty and insensitivity to the needs of these deaf children. I would strongly encourage the oral survivors to get together to share their stories on this subject to educate the clueless public what abuses they were forced to experience by overzealous and overbearing oral educators in the past.
It’s all about the marketing technique. Is this an effective way to reach out to desperate hearing parents looking for ways to raise their deaf children to be successful citizens? Will they be inspired to the fighting message of war and suffering or a positive message of a successful ASL-signing happy child with an excellent command of language and healthy self esteem?
I do wish DBC the best of luck
October 24th, 2008 at 9:20 am
Susan and Another Refugee are right, I think. Amy has issues with DBC and some of the people involved. That became very clear last summer, especially when she posted a negative post on the first night of the DBC conference… where Hokum, er, Hocokan, came out of the sewer for the first time. And we all know what happened. A month-long DBC hate-fest, in which Amy participated, and which tore the online community apart very badly. There is still significant damage from that. I’m seeing people who were traumatized by it change their behavior by not commenting anymore, not using their real names anymore when they do comment, not writing/signing anymore, or have stopped even reading blogs/vlogs. For this, I hold Amy, Barry Sewell, Ben Vess, Dan, DeafRead, and all the others who participated and/or enabled this behavior personally responsible.
It is one thing to examine our organizations and leaders in a healthy way. It is something else completely to do what is being done here.
October 24th, 2008 at 9:31 am
Yes, Dianerez.
If DBC is too focused on themselves and the history of the deaf community, yes, it definitely will scare hearing parents of deaf child/children off. It won’t work.
If DBC boards/staffs/committees/Public Relations *tell* the media about the history of the deaf community, yes, it definitely will scare hearing parents of deaf child/children off. It *still* won’t work.
Many hearing parents of deaf child/children are looking for some “reliable and effective” information in the education and background.
DBC needs to get the conversative strategist.
I honestly don’t like what Richard Ray’s statement in the DBC blog.
October 24th, 2008 at 10:06 am
Dont forget there are some hearing people who support ASL and are part of DBC if you care to know.. Thanks White Ghost!
October 24th, 2008 at 10:07 am
What happened last summer arose due to the failure of DBC to be fully transparent with the involvement of Deafhood and their refusal to answer questions from puzzled stakeholders.
Had DBC been honest from the beginning about the Deafhood being an integral part of DBC, there would be no firestorm. Had DBC answered the questions from concerned stakeholders afterwards, there would also be no firestorm. Maybe it is time for DBC to stop blaming others and look at itself for its failure to be fully transparent with the Deaf Community
Didn’t we learn from Unity for Gallaudet the lessons about the importance of open transparency and honest dialogue? Are we doomed to make the same mistakes? No, some of us have already learned a lot of lessons from Unity for Gallaudet. It’s time for Deaf leaders to recognize that Deaf Community deserves the full truth.
Why is Amy being attacked for raising a good question? The implication here is that Deaf people have no right to ask questions without being accused of personal vendetta? If so, why are we being held to a different standard of conduct? Hearing people always ask questions.
Why is DBC discouraging healthy questions? What are they afraid of? Healthy dialogues with both the positives and negatives?
If they cannot handle the questions from the Deaf Community how can they handle the questions from the hearing people?
October 24th, 2008 at 10:49 am
DeafRead Guidelines
“Naming a person is still fine, however if the named person is insulted, or targeted negatively, it will raise a flag for which we will survey the post more closely.”
I don’t see that term CyberSafety project and cyber right included in the right of free speech.
If I don’t like any blog and vlog, I would click a flag in your vlog since the Guidelines say, “targeted negatively.”
It is the same words, not revised. “We will not post anything that is an attack on a specific race, gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation, age or religion.”
pdurr Says:
July 24th, 2008 at 6:56 pm
“attack on a specific language, disability, culture, race, gender…”
I have to agree with pdurr who obviously suggested her comment on the revised guidelines for Tayler Mayer New last summer, but he doesn’t change into the new and revised guidelines.
October 24th, 2008 at 10:50 am
Amy, Joseph P.R. and others,
Obviously you do not grasp the literary and rhetorical device of the metaphor.
Just as September 11, 2001 was a day that will live in infamy in the minds of Americans, September 11, 1880 is a day that has, and will continue to live in the minds of Deaf Americans and all those who love sign languages and Deaf Culture. Both dates have had significant impacts upon us all in terms of social and monetary costs.
In the aftermath of 9/11, Americans became suspicious of our Muslim neighbors at home and abroad. Bush declared war on Al Quaeda (and then when he failed to find and catch Osama, decided to go to war on Iraq instead for no real good reason, but that is another debate for another day). As a result, many American lives have already been lost, and Billions of dollars have been spent on waging this war. We, our children, and probably our grandchildren are going to be paying the price of this debt.
In the aftermath of September 11, 1880 (Milan Conf.), Deaf people became pitted against Hearing people and each other. The quality of Deaf education, literacy and community declined. Our grandparents, parents, us, and our children paid the price and will continue to pay the price for what happened on that date.
Unfortunately, our belligerent culture tends to use metaphors of war to describe a conflict. We engage in a BATTLE of wits. We STRATEGIZE and OUTMANEUVER our opponents. A SALVO of words flew back and forth as they argued. He FIRED a parting SHOT as he left the room. You dropped a BOMB on us.
Anyone remember LBJ’s WAR on Poverty? Or Ronnie Raygun’s WAR on Drugs?
So, the writers of Richard’s speech were making an apt analogy. The speech was a bit long and wordy, but it was apt. In the context of the day (and I was there), it was appropriate. It complemented the other speeches that were made that day. Many other speeches were made that would reach parents in different ways, if parents were there to hear them, including Terrylene’s and mine.
October 24th, 2008 at 11:45 am
Florida Girl,
Asking the Deaf Community a question is a negative attack? Please clarify to us why asking questions are considered attacks? Thanks in advance
October 24th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
Comment »
October 24th, 2008 at 12:47 pm
Pundit –
I meant to add in my original post, but forgot to, that there are other metaphors that are possible to use — for example, you could view conflict as a dance “it takes two to tango”, you know. However, these metaphors are very few in our culture compared to “war” metaphors. The reason is that in our culture, they don’t “resonate” — people don’t relate to them because it is easier to envision conflict as a battle rather than as a “cooperative” venture”. It is easier to think of and find metaphors using the “war” imagery. Doesn’t mean we can’t use other metaphors. If they work, we can use them.
October 24th, 2008 at 12:51 pm
MishkaZena, I do not say that a question is a negative attack. Do you have the proof to cause me misinterpret it? You could add word yourself, so this is not my idea.
I remembered that you deleted my several comments, which are not slander for few years ago.
October 24th, 2008 at 1:05 pm
I mean, I have to show a proof that Miska Zena caused me misinterpret.
October 24th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
Likewise Deaf Pundit, I am disappointed too, as we can’t ever think we are “above it all”, not to be able to handle it when people are curious to understand better what we are doing and saying.
I commend Amy for asking this question, as it should have be viewed to serve as a check n balance. Nothing more and nothing less. If I know Richard Ray, he will more likely view it this way as well. If it were me, I would take this as an opportunity in a healthy way to clarify further what I meant, etc. Whats not healthy is seeing comments attack a person for asking. Its not acceptable. Nor would it be acceptable to see Richard attacked likewise. So I would really appreciate it if people can stay focused on the issue, cease with throwing mud at the person.
Amy, FYI..I thought Richard Ray’s presentation was powerful. In ASL, he did a beautiful job. The English translation doesn’t do justice to what I saw at the ASL Celebration on September 26, 2008.
Amy, to answer your question, in my opinion, that this presentation was geared toward a Deaf Audience. Inspiring us all to stand up for what we belive in on that day! I am not so sure that this same presentation would be what is shared with new parents of deaf babies. I could be wrong but think the approach would be different.
Perhaps it was confusing to see this presentation posted on DBC’s website instead of CAD’s? Thus why I can see why you asked the question. DBC is geared toward the educational aspect focusing on language acquistion for deaf babies. I am sure DBC is hoping parents will use its site as a resource, therefore, this presentation by itself, may not be clear to new parents exactly what its intentions are, eh?
Regardless, your question poses even me to think, what we say, may end up on parent’s network, and it is the parents who have these deaf babies that we wish to bridge the gap and utilize us Deaf with the expertise to reach their children for early intervention purposes.
My question for DBC becomes, if ASL is the tantamount goal, why isn’t there a vlog explaining the resources and articles in ASL? For example, this presentation in question would be more readily accepted if it had been a vlog instead of English translation alone. Just food for thought. Keep up the good work.
Thanks Amy, for the opportunity to respond. Keep on asking good questions!!
Yours in unity, Sheri.
October 24th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
Florida Girl, please don’t leave a comment in my blog as it’s not relevant to my post, but to leave it here instead, thanks. In response to your comment, I am puzzled why you brought up the name calling comment. Can you clarify exactly what you are trying to say with that comment? Thanks
October 24th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
[...] hearing parents of deaf babies and children understand the situation better?” ‘in her vlog DEAF WORLD AS EYE SEE IT » A Question for DBC and Deaf Community. Several commenters claimed that Ms Efron is engaging in a personal vendetta against one specific [...]
October 24th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
Wondering if NAD finish see our comments???
October 24th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
Responding to the comment made by Dr. Donald Grushkin (comment number 26):
Anyone can use any analogy to make any point. But, not all analogies have the equal effects on the people. To you, the analogy of 9/11 may be appropriate. For me, it is obviously illogical, hostile and inflammatory. It does not mean that you are wrong and I am right. It could be that I could be wrong but I am not persuaded by your arguments justifying the use of the analogy of 9/11 as applied to ASL.
I was googling for a good quotation and found this one: “Use soft words and hard arguments.” It is an English proverb and the source is unknown. If Mr. Richard Rays use soft words and yet make good arguments, I believe his presentation will be very useful to the hearing parents.
Joseph Pietro Riolo
josephpietrojeungriolo@gmail.com
Public domain notice: I put all of my expressions in this post in the public domain.
October 24th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
A presentation should be geared towards both deaf and hearing in the same format and expressed in the same meaning.
The theme I’m getting here is “War.” and it appears that DBC is going to war against those that promote C.I.
What some feel strongly about,should not be used to reach out to a certain group of people.
I think that if it was as simple as campaigning and/or promoting ASL for it’s benefits and leave it at that, it will flourish on its own.
We shouldn’t be fighting anyone or trying to tell anyone what to think or do. The more we promote ASL in a simple way, it will attract many hearing parents to check ASL out.
Right now, I’m seeing certain people going all out as if it’s do or die and that will be a catalyst that will destroy ASL and deaf culture as it is.
SUA
Candy~
October 24th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
Dong…
I believe that is the most poorest analogy on the part of comparison between 9/11/01 and 9/11/1880. From my perceptive since I put myself into hearing people’s shoes, I believe it’s “terrorism” since they’d strong arm the hearing parents into submissive to their “demands” to use ASL. It is wrong on many levels.
Penny….
I don’t know what the hell is the matter with you. Everytime I see you in every blogsphere, you kept attacking almost every person. Even worse, you told Amy to shut up. What the hell is that for? She doesn’t even deserve that shabbily treatment from you. You need to learn to refrain those insults. You also need to learn to refrain from grudging up the old past such as Super Nanny, etc. Obviously you do have a real grudge against Amy for some reason. I have yet not seen any of your positive comments. NONE! Your attitude is not really appreciated here.
Misha
October 24th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
Comment »
October 24th, 2008 at 3:08 pm
Response from Amy Cohen Efron
Comment »
October 24th, 2008 at 3:13 pm
Hi All,
This is Tami Hossler, the hearing mom on the core committee for DBC. I was the one that made the decision to post this speech on DBC’s website. I thought the speech was very good. I thought it was important for other hearing parents to be able to read and get a glimpse as to why ASL is so important to the Deaf Community and important for Deaf babies to be able to access.
So I guess my answer to your question would be “yes” hearing people do need to know these things and “yes” especially hearing parents. I have been in the shoes of new parents. I know the desperate feeling of trying to get as much information as I can to make informed decisions for my daughter. Without the honest and upfront information that so many in the Deaf Community shared with our family over the years, I am not sure what decisions we might have made for her. You see most hearing families today get most of their information from hearing professionals and not from those who have lived the experience. That is why I posted this. Hearing parents and hearing professionals do want to know. I am sorry if I caused a stir today in the blogosphere. This is as transparent as I can possibly be:)
October 24th, 2008 at 3:29 pm
Comment »
October 24th, 2008 at 4:49 pm
Hi everyone,
I always am for the freedom of speech and expression and the right to inquiry for healthy discussion or healthy discourse, etc.
Amy Cohen Efron have much rights to make the logical question whether the latest DBC blog posting, especially Don, CAD President’s statement at the rally help the parents of deaf youngsters to deflect the AVT therapy and CI installment.
Amy have DONE NOTHING to leave any blemish or negativity toward the DBC. Just raise the fair question to see whether the DBC’s latest action will help parents of deaf youngsters to take the deep thoughts what they would do to their own deaf children, etc.
Dan, CAD prez, raised very interesting scenario and comparsion between the 9/11 tragedy and the Milian Conference 1880, because of the eerie same date shaking the human civilization to the core thru the use of violence and cause damages to the buildings and humans parallel to the thousandths of deaf youngsters since the 1880s.
Amy and every of us ought to do the polling of hearing parents of deaf youngsters WHAT THEY REALLY THINK OF DAN’S PRESENTATION. Does the presentation will affect those parents to reject the AVT therapy and CI installment, etc.
Dan have much rights to his own presenation. I don’t see any harm in Dan’s presentation. His presentation do not be seen as any kind of hardline.
Sadly, many journalists often face death or threats or systematic blackball when they raise tough questions. Politicians accuse the media of being negative or sabatoge their campaign by raising questions, etc.
I will write my own blog posting about the rapidly lessening of freedom of the press and speech among journalists.
I admire Amy for being thoughtful and brave and constant vlogger. I am all way with Amy Cohen Efron and Dan Roweskeri and Misha Zena for being truly courageous and action-taker, etc.
Robert L. Mason (RLM)
October 24th, 2008 at 8:11 pm
If I accept that the CAD President’s presentation was appropriate for the audience and the occasion surrounding it, let me ask you if you think his speech, as transcripted here should be in those nice looking 3 by 6 tri-fold color brochures in doctors’ office all over creation? Ya got the point now?
October 24th, 2008 at 9:02 pm
Deaf Pundit,
I am happy to explain more. Before our daughter was born, I had never met a Deaf person. I had no idea what it meant to be Deaf. Fortunately, my husband and I were lucky to have a few Deaf people in our small rural community who reached out to us to show us the importance of language and invite us into their home and sit down to explain their experiences growing up.
During that time, we had hearing professional early interventionists that only gave us the choice of oral or TC (which meant sim-com…speaking and signed English) in the 0-3 preschool setting. Thank goodness one day a Deaf mother entered the preschool and I saw real sign language.. ASL.
Later, we tried putting our daughter in kindergarten in a mainstreamed setting. It didn’t take long to realize that this was not an environment of accessibility in language and critical mass of peers and role models.
We decided to move to Indianapolis so our daughter could attend ISD. This is when our family really got a chance to interact with the Deaf Community.
I cannot count the number of times that conversations would start by Deaf individuals coming up to us saying how wonderful it was that we were learning to sign. This would then start conversations about how they were raised and what they went through isolated within their own families all because their parents were lead to believe they should be raised oral or refused to learn to sign with them.
Many of the conversations would be how they were raised in isolated public classrooms with and many times without interpreters or any kind of support staff. Many of these same people didn’t learn ASL or know about ASL until later in their lives. We listened to stories about how, even today, they do not enjoy getting together with their parents or hearing families.
How could we ever ignore the lessons we were learning from this?
It is new territory for many hearing parents and that is why they need your guidance, honesty, and willingness to reach out to them. They are not afraid to hear these stories. They surely do not want to repeat them on their children. They need each of you to be upfront and honest with them and not sugarcoat what has happened in the past, what is happening today, and what it is they can do to raise their child to be a language rich, self-confident and independent person.
I hope this explanation helps you understand that hearing people are not children and don’t need to be babied. We are adults who need all the facts so we can make good decisions so our children don’t have to be the ones later on that are telling these regrettably sad stories.
October 24th, 2008 at 10:57 pm
Right RLM about media!!
October 24th, 2008 at 11:47 pm
Amy,
I have simple and logistic answer to your question.
Evidently the deaf people were once again the target of the market. They repeated a cyncical approach, which they practiced earlier this year in Milwaukee. To date I have not seen any improvement in their marketing approaches. They have not connected with the hearing parents yet therefore they remain uneducated on this matter.
Fortunately for us, this transcript has fallen on deaf ears. It fell on deaf ears because it was ill-prepared and poorly written. The choice of terms that were used, such as ‘war’ and 9/11 is a disgrace to our ASL community, as if we’re people of limited vocabularies.
Undoubtly, this particular transcript would rank very poorly from the view point of strategic marketers and public relation consultants. Rest assured, it won’t get them very far in their quest for the security that we all seek. The greater they cry and whine with such ‘war’ language the more desperate and dyfunctional they sound. Therefore we can expect the greater push for the ‘fix’ to happen. Evidently it’s already happening. We’d be lying to ourselves if we thought we were winning this so-called war.
We either get our act together or we don’t. The latter seem to be the course we’ve taken and that’s why I’ve made a decision to move on. I’ve made a decision to enjoy life for what it really is, instead of living in their so-called fantasty island whereas their illusions seem to be full of walls, wars and collapsing towers, a severe case of hallucination.
What few hearing parents might run into this transcript will form an opinion and view us as the party of hallucination society.
DR Hocokan
October 24th, 2008 at 11:57 pm
DeafPundit???
October 25th, 2008 at 12:48 am
Ella have nice post about how Deaf see hearing parents as boogeyman.
Make me think about hearing many more friendly than many Deaf think. Maybe time for direct communication?
http://www.ellasflashlight.com/?p=120
- Jerry Kingston
October 25th, 2008 at 3:50 am
Amy,
My answer is… NO.
In transcript. Hearing parents will think that “DEAF = LOW SELF-STEEM, UNEDUCATED, INSECURITY and CHEAP STAKE”.
There are many ways to make it better and marketable. Unfortunately, they didn’t take a right way.
CAD-DBC had a really long way to go and difficult time to understand about how big the world is and its reality. They are just full of insecurity and real victims of audism / oralism (phased out and old times!). Sorry for them.
Hello Refugee and Don G,
What’s up?! Be yourself, get rid of deaf cult effects. Clear up your minds and answer to Deaf Pundit clearly.
Thank you for your cooperation.
Dan
October 25th, 2008 at 5:23 am
Like Conscious said, “Everything has its beauty but not everyone sees it.”
I take exception when you asked, “Will this [Ray’s] Presentation help hearing parents of deaf babies and children understand the situation better?”
The situation was the International Day of Sign Languages, also as the ASL Celebration Day. I loved how Don (#26) complimented the metaphor of Ray’s commentary that was ~very~ fitting for celebrating a day of ASL with several presenters like Richard Ray. Thanks to Sheri (#32) for taking the time to clarify and indicated how the presentation was powerful when Ray signed on behalf of the California Association of the Deaf.
Of course, I disagree when this connection was made with the Deaf Bilingual Coalition. I love the energy, ideation, tenacity and cussed independence of the DBC serving as the front for hearing parents of Deaf children. You, commenters and readers would consider better when you review DBC’s notes of the countless meetings (and emails) as the “voice” of Deaf America. To date we reached to thirty-six DBC chapters! Please take the time to browse http://dbcusa.org/
I am not pointing fingers but to remind everyone of us that now 2008 is our year to reinvent ourselves. It has been a revelation for many at this late date; bilingualism has not yet been well publicized. As Tami shared, the majority of parents (and hearing people in general) do not have the opportunity to be in contact with Deaf people. They are understandably prone to think of the Deaf experience from their own point of view. Hearing people often perceive being Deaf as losing an important “sense” that is elemental to their lives. For us who are Deaf, we have no feeling of loss. It just never leaves us. This is our life, and we are healthy, social beings.
Clinical programs are on the rise, and great deals of misleading intervention materials are being made available to parents. They are clueless about the importance of allowing their Deaf babies be exposed to ASL and acquiring it as a first language. We have so many ways to teach the world, but so little time! This is why DBC was set up in July 2007; to enable us share about the findings of the benefits of bilingualism, and to encourage parents and members of the public to learn more about the truth. DBC started small with dreams that exploded as new realities. It is such a new and different world we live in today. Moreover, that old truism is truer today than ever before, “Everything has its beauty.” Beyond the powers of imagination, even of the most egregious opinions, for the sake of the preservation of ASL and our visual/manual communication world, we accommodate to the task of exposing ourselves as staunch advocates to ensure that all Deaf babies and children succeed and thrive though early and strong acquisition of ASL. It is high time for us to throw in this lot together with such drive!
October 25th, 2008 at 5:34 am
My bad, a typo! :6
For the quote, “Everything has its beauty…” I meant Confucius (a chinese philosopher that Ray also quoted in his commentary.)
October 25th, 2008 at 7:28 am
Amy Cohen Efron here:
Readers and commenters, there is an increasing number of anonymous commenters with fictional email addresses leaving unproductive comments that is not related to the topic. I reserve the right to not publish these comments.
This dialogue is very productive when commenting about the question (the topic of this blog), and I, again, appreciate for each of you who took time to write these comments. Everyone is learning from reading your perspectives, and I can certainly see the passion from each of you who truly want what is best for deaf babies and children.
Thank you very much.
Amy Cohen Efron
October 25th, 2008 at 7:55 am
Hi ASLisRisen!
Comment »
October 25th, 2008 at 8:13 am
Thank you, DeafPundit!!!
October 25th, 2008 at 8:20 am
BETWEEN AUDism and hearing people are bit different meanings. Don’t you ever think that we all are against hearing people? NO it s wrong for someone who tried to make it look bad on us for no reasons. We are against AUDISM s audist attitude and their cruelty rules against our Deaf babies/children’ s own will and boundary. IS this right for them to destroy these Deaf children s innocent and their own natural abilities/adaptation from a start ? I DONT THINK SO. Let them have their own original Deafhood. PERIOD!
LET DEAF CHILDREN being themselves as who they are from day one. Deaf will be always deaf that you need to cope with yourself and others.
Other thing, Give DBC a break and time to work on it .. It s just one year old they just started it out. It cannot happens overnight.. So just leave them alone and they know what they are trying to do work with DBC people who cares for Deaf babies/childrens’ sakes. Let them be without your disturbance.
Ha ha Deaf cult. NO wonder I was being attacked and had my reasonable comments rejected or destroy me as a natural Deaf person by those Audism /CI cult company groups for 50 years in Reality and TEN YEARS on internet that I will not let you forget this abuse toward me. Oh please! I m not into any religious cults like what Cochlear implant companies and AUDISM people tried to do to us and our deaf community. That is their own evil cult to destroy the natural Deaf babies/children that must all implant these Deaf children badly. This IS A CULT to force and conform these children to be a SHADOW HEARING children if you mind. This is a real abuse going on in this society as I saw all my life that makes me sick my stomach. I will NOT giving it up to stand up for our Deaf children s protection as long as I live. Mind you, AUDISM/CI companies who does not have any respect for my freedom of speech with no violation against the rules. I will not letting anyone get away with it while they do not have any respect for American Sign Language and Deaf community.
We do not need these sickness people who thinks they can destroy us, our Deaf ears, and our Deaf community if you mind. THATS selfish of their intention to destroy everything we provide for all Deaf and Hearing children to have a good communication with ASL altogether if you care enough to understand the whole meaning of DEAF CHILD s rights
Thank you!
Deaf SweetMind
October 25th, 2008 at 8:36 am
Deaf Pundit—
Pleeze blog about this issue…..I love to read!
October 25th, 2008 at 8:44 am
For SweetDeafMind, I understand your points!!!
October 25th, 2008 at 10:15 am
Commenting on the comment made by tina jo (comment number 51):
I enjoy reading the quotations from Confucius. He was a great thinker.
Unfortunately, I was not able to find the source for the quotation that Mr. Richard Ray used in his presentation. It could be that the quotation is very rare that it is not easy to find the source. Or, it could be that Mr. Ray misremembered, misunderstood or rephrased the original quotation. The quotation is a very good one but it is not appropriate to attribute it to Confucius if there is no source supporting the attribution.
I was pondering on the quotation about beauty and want to share my thought on it. Each communication choice has beauty in it. AVT has beauty that some or few hearing parents see. Various forms of oralism have beauty that some or few hearing parents see. Total Communication has beauty that some hearing parents see. Cued Speech has beauty that some or few hearing parents see. PSE, SEE and various forms of signed English have beauty that some hearing parents see. ASL has beauty that some hearing parents see. The presentation made by Mr. Ray apparently denied the beauty in the communication choices. This is a concern for me. Every communication choice has its beauty but just because not everyone sees it does not necessarily mean that there is no beauty in it.
I can see how some or many Deaf people see the beauty in the presentation made by Mr. Ray. I respect their view. I just don’t think that the beauty is very apparent to the hearing people on the first impression.
Joseph Pietro Riolo
josephpietrojeungriolo@gmail.com
Public domain notice: I put all of my expressions in this post in the public domain.
October 25th, 2008 at 10:20 am
Hi ASLisRisen.. Thank you for your reply.
Well, It s the same concept of having these kind of abuses to be forced Deaf human to deal between Sexual Abuse and AGBell s abuse. Audism did this too and taught them to abuse others about our being deaf that is not allowed to have in our lives. Scoffs. MEDICAL did actually damaged our Deaf ears from day one so be it. Medical don’t want you to know that is the huge issue here after all Deafness is the secondary that did not damage by it. IT IS the original organs that causes us being deaf that is all to it. NO ONE can fix it that you need to keep that in your MIND.
EARS DO NOT THINK but BRAIN does. Get it??
Sexual Abuse, there are 50 percent of Deaf children who were having Sexual abuses in this society so therefore it shows that AUDISM destroy Deaf’s Mental health because of lack of American Sign Language for so many years in any schools.. I don’t appreciate that they blamed Deaf schools only that is not what it came from a start. However it should BLAME this society and AUDISM s audist attitude who did this kind of abuses that Deaf babies/children are getting it all along. NO difference between Sexual Abuse and FORCE them to do while they have no choices to make. They are stuck into a Black hole unless somebody stop them and stand up for their rights. It s not okay to abuse any human being s rights so be it.
BLAME ON AUDISM ’s audist attitude and Sexual abuse that they are the abusers people toward our Deaf babies/children/teenagers/adults/elderly people in this society.. PERIOD!
It s very wrong for anyone who thinks it s okay to abuse our Deaf human because AUDISM says so and forces us to be a Shadow hearing.. So therefore in this society says it s okay for anyone to abuse Deaf human ’s own will and boundaries. This society people have a very severe mental illness and thinks they have the right to destroy us because they dont think its the right to have Deaf human in this mother nature world. UMMPPHH! Something is wrong going on because of their making money out on us for their own businesses. It s not a big helpful for Deaf community if people are doing that on their own intention to destroy these Deaf human in this society. That is a big sickness audist attitude. Lack of Deaf services for Deaf people as usual. Now look at the article about this Deaf guy who is 22 years old and had been wearing two hearing aid when he was a little boy that he ends up living in a wrong place to live. Thats cruel for these AUDISM people did it to Deaf young adults that has not been changing yet.
No wonder CI and AUDISM abused Government s money all along for their own business profits without giving a real help to others before you can blame us to abuse Govt s money.. Scoffs!
This is what I DISAGREE with AUDISM’s audist attitudes going on in our Deaf community and any Deaf or Mainstream schools because NO ASL to be part of Deaf lives. SCoffs! This is a real full LIES and SCAM hearing parents who are innocent by CI companies all along. They are the evil cult abusers toward Deaf babies/children and Hearing parents with positive attitudes all along. People accept it and give too much mixed messages for years and years that I DONT AGREE without having the moral values that should be done.
I like you to read what I wrote in Deafnotes that you will understand it better. I am getting tired of having no freedom of speech with no violation against the rules by THESE narrowmind AUDISM people who rejected and removed my comments .. THAT IS COWARD and DISHONEST/SELFISH people who did this for years and years. I wont let them getting away with it. PERIOD!
Thats the way AUDISM ’s abusive toward us all along that they have a very cold black hearts and are a big liars all along that they believe in AGBELL s method. Scoffs!
IT S ALL ABOUT MONEY< CONTROL<POWER< GREED from a start that they are not helping us at all. It runs the same old behavior cycle that has been circle around and around . It s always destroying Deaf human s rights that has not been stopping. SCOFFS!
LEAVE DEAF BABIES/CHILDREN ALONE for once and let them be who they are from day one. PERIOD!
TOO MUCH mixed messages that doesn’t tell you who is right with the moral rules after all there are full of abuses going on in our Deaf community and at home. It has not stopped since AGB took over and turned against Laurent Clerc’s accomplishment for Deaf students from a start.
DEAF BABIES/CHILDREN has their rights to have their own true soul, mind and body to be protected. PERIOD! No one has the right to change the whole Deaf child s rights.
Thank you!
Deaf SweetMind
October 25th, 2008 at 11:37 am
To Joseph Pietro Riolo,
Yes, that is the beauty of having the parents to make their informed decision with communication choice and I support that.
But what many people don’t understand is that there are many doctors, hospitals, organizations still inform the newly parents of Deaf babies misinformed information about American Sign language in the negative image that makes it ugly, not the beauty image side of the truth about how ASL will improve the ability to learn English language far better than the other communication choice.
These doctors, so-call deaf experts from certain organizations and even some deaf people that have no conception of American Sign language are doing more harm to the parents that don’t know all the facts about deaf language and education and misguide them in most cases.
Another words, majority of the newly parents are not being fully informed and it is time that we fully inform them before making the final decision. I fully support that the parents make their own decision but I don’t support the so-call “igornant” deaf experts telling parents that sign language(ASL) is “not the best” for their deaf child. That ruins the beauty of making the fully informed decision by the parents.
October 26th, 2008 at 1:27 pm
This is Amy Cohen Efron here, and I am dismayed to read most of the comments with harsh words that was written on the blog.
My question is not a “Gotcha” question. I was very perplexed with the rationale behind the decision that was made by Deaf Bilingual Coalition to post the transcript from the presentation done by California Association of the Deaf’s president that was intended for the Deaf audience.
DBC’s website, as I can understand, whose main audience is hearing parents with deaf babies.
Posting the link to the transcript on a blog explaining the success of ASL Celebration at Sacramento, California brings a completely different rhetoric than most of what was written on the DBC website. No where on the DBC website talks about war and 9/11.
These two examples does create a lot of raised eyebrows.
The question is how did the Presentation help hearing parents of deaf babies and children understand the situation better?
It is all about how do we present information which is direct, fact-based with evidence and approachable to families who just discovered they have a deaf child.
They sought for information how to help their child to succeed. They don’t know about deaf politics, communication wars, and oppression which most Deaf adults are facing.
They just want to know the answers to their questions:
“Can my baby hear again?”
“Can my baby become a successful adult?”
“Can my baby talk?”
“Can my baby learn a language?
Granted, there are more and more parents are saavy about American Sign Language, and they will take a quick route for their child. Thankfully!
Still.. there are other parents who still have these questions, and they want their baby to be like them.
I am more interested in how we present our parents with the best kind of HOOK and remain polishing and refining our HOOK.
Then, eventually the parents will learn bit more about politics and issues around the communication, AFTER they decide that ASL is the choice for their baby/child.
Shoving politics and issues at the first time? Is that helpful?
Now, back to the question:
How did the Presentation (CAD’s President’s presentation at ASL Celebration Event) help hearing parents of deaf babies and children understand the situation better?
Thank you,
Amy Cohen Efron
October 26th, 2008 at 9:32 pm
To answer Amy Efron’s question, I would say, NO! This document is solely addressed to deaf attendees at the CAD convention, as I understood that it was an address given at the CAD convention. It is completely addresed to Deaf eyes. It is like preaching to the converted.
I further suggest that the document in its present form not to be shown to parents at all. It is not well written, although in perfect English grammar. Some thought constructions need to be rewritten. For example the analogy to 9/11. Differently formulated will make the reference to 9/11 just a simile (a form of metaphor) to show the magnitude how the Milan 1880 decision impacted the lives of deaf people afterwards, not an analogy to prove an argument.
Still the simile is less enlightening. The terrorism behind the 9/11, plane and ship hijackings, and Olympic Games in Munich 1972 speak of resolute disrespect for human life and for lives of innocent people out of pure hatred against the economic and military might of the West. The political agenda of the terrorists has not been laid out clearly on the table. The “terrorism” of the oralists against the deaf people, however, is very different and completely submerged in the audism among hearing people who thinks that to be able to hear and to speak is paramount to life, to quality of life, and to the development of intellect. Out of this comes the underlying political agenda that deafness is a defect to be eradicated from mankind. Also out of this comes the conviction that sign language is something that is expendable or not necessary. In their subconsciousness, it is “Every human being must hear and speak.” The connection of oralism and Milan 1880 with 9/11 is ill-chosen and impossible to justify.
A better analogy is with racism in the sense that an ethnic entity is superior over the other ethnic group. I use a different analogy in Germany that is equally shocking and less liked there with “Final Solution of the Deaf-Mute Problem”. All the medical research is directed toward annihilation of the deaf population. With this slogan as a shocker, people hopefully are forced to think, if an attempt to eradicate a cultural group of people is not being made.
What CAD and the Deaf Bilingual Coalition as well as any other organization of the Deaf need to promulgate ist the notions that “To be deaf is OK and not to be mourned about”, its existence should be encouraged for the sake of human and cultural diversity, and that mankind is richer with the maintenance of sign languages that require a sufficient mass of native signers. Deaf children of deaf parents alone cannot provide this sufficient mass. We must emphasize and say repeatedly that we have ever promoted sign language monolingualism and never will be and that we are fighting against audism inherent in “To be deaf is a defect and ought to be off this planet Earth” and against the slander that we propose sign language monolingualism.
Hartmut
October 27th, 2008 at 9:44 pm
Amy -
in terms of the 9\11 analogy - in general it is taboo for ANY ONE for ANY REASON to be evoking an 9\11 analogy just as folks object to analogies of the Holocaust for other types of oppression and discrimination
My guess is the speaker was referencing terrorism and one definition of terrorism is:
the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion.
oralism (this means oral aural ONLY mandate) has been prevalent and entrenched all over the globe due to this systematic use of terror on parents minds - “ur baby will never talk, ur baby will not be able to order food in a restaurant let alone hold a job, and ur baby will have to have a Deaf partner to communicate with and then u will have two non-speaking folks on ur hands UNLESS UNLESS UNLESS u pick door number 1 and see the wizard of oz and then u will have success - only if u do not allow signing and hanging out with other Deaf folks and being a person of the eye”
Many congressional reports state that this is still rampant thinking and practices and this form of terrorism in DEAF EDUCATION, Deaf REHABILITATION, Deaf medical and social service systems, and homes with a Deaf child(ren) still exists
soo……. maybe when the CAD president made that reference it was to WAKE folks up …. to give a metaphorical shout to raise many eye brows to startle and arouse
what would it do to a new hearing parent who reads it - it will definitely cause them pause - and if they r a good parent like most good parents THEY WILL BE ASKING THE QUESTIONS - why did he say this, what does it mean, how do we ensure acts of neglect and audism do not happen in our home or in our child’s educational experience q how do we make sure that we r not just another brick in the road from Milan
I have a question for u amy -
just curious as to ur point and purpose in posing what appears to be a rhetorical question with no follow up answer from your point of view
is it a sincere question or is it intended to admonish and reprimand DBC yet again
i am sincere in my question here - i ask because the tone of ur vlog leads me to pick the admonishing one yet i know assumptions are dangerous and hence i ask
Peace
patti
October 28th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
Hi Amy!
I would like to ask a simple question.
Have you asked the person who made the transcription that you showed in video?
Another question.
Why do you feel the need to vlog this without find out what message was about?
Why do I ask those questions? I can’t help but notice that anyone who decides to vlog; they would know that without talk with someone who is responsible for its information or findings and it would create some misunderstandings or start the ‘fire’. This is what it bothers me the most, especially from some people with one-time or used to be respected persons. Perhaps you or anyone want to explain or help me to understand why the way of open up without talk with proper source is necessary?
Until you are able to discuss with the person and then you may share your opinion or ask anyone in here for further ‘healthy’ discussion; otherwise, your argument, I think, is irrelevant.
Thank you,
Kathryn
October 28th, 2008 at 3:39 pm
Kathryn,
you can exercise the benefit of doubt by asking the author what he meant what he wrote. But alas, once it has been published, either in print or on a website, readers do not do that. They rely for their interpretation alone on the text they have in front of themselves. The author either publish a clarification afterwards or, if on a website, withdraw it. When I read it, I interpreted it with a Deaf eye, and understood it, that is, I guessed the author’s intention.
pdurr,
an analogy to be successful must be apt within the context. It can be exaggerated for emphasis to awaken someone. The risk of bringing an analogy is that it may be rejected outright. The analogy to 9/11 addresses of indiscriminating and ruthless terror and not apt in the context of language oppression against the deaf. Audistic parents believe that they have done nothing cruel and accuse us of being cruel by not giving a deaf child the chance to hear and acquire language through the ear, this being the most natural for them. Therefore, they will reject the analogy of 9/11 as false analogy.
The analogy to “final solution” addresses the concept of annihilation of an ethnic group, the Jews and holocaust. CI, deaf-gen-therapy and stemcell generation of cochlear haircells are directed toward eradication of deafness and therefore the existence of deaf people. So the final solution analogy is certainly apt to drive the point of eradication home. But some German people expresses strong indignation when I brought this analogy up. Their chief argument is that I denigrated the magnitude of the holocaust, while the medical techniques against deafness do not involve any systematic murder. But interesting is that Jewish persons I contacted approved this analogy and encouraged it, saying that it helps to broaden the understanding of factors underlying racism and anti-semitism.
Hearing parents of deaf children, who are enlightened to our cause, most probably will read the CAD paper the way you and I interpreted. But not others! Some may inquire, because they are puzzled about some wording, especially the reference to 9/11. Even after learning that it is an expression of anger of not letting deaf children to learn ASL, they will defend their decision of no ASL for their deaf or hard-of-hearing children as being responsible/good parents, who think the best for their children. They may say that their children will learn to sign later as a teen, if they wish to.
One problem I see is that the notion of Deaf as a cultural ethnicity is alien to many parents of deaf children. Even many of those who support ASL for their children do not subscribe to this ethnic notion and think that deaf people are nothing more than deaf Americans who use sign language.
Hartmut
October 29th, 2008 at 8:14 am
hartmut - thanks for ur comments - u might want to checkout some of the comments at Deaf Pundit where i raised the topic of linguistic and cultural genocide or ethnocide as some refer to it
http://deafpundit.wordpress.com/2008/10/25/effective-advocacy-marketing/#comments
id be curious of ur thoughts here
the thread is also discussing parental rights and POV
peace
patti
October 29th, 2008 at 9:32 pm
Hi Hartmut -
Thank you for your comment to my # 65 and I will keep it in mind. I appreciate it.
Those questions I was asking - they are for Amy and I am still waiting.
Thanks again.
Kathryn
October 30th, 2008 at 5:29 am
Kathryn,
I wrote my response that answers to most of the commenter’s questions above and across the blogosphere.
My response is # 62.
First of all, this presentation was given before the Deaf audience, and it was appropriate. I do understand the intention of this speech.
And…
I still am very perplexed that presentation being posted on the DBC website. I was wondering about the rationale behind since this presentation presents a very powerful rhetoric language which was appropriate for the Deaf audience, and my question remains was how would this rhetoric would help for the hearing parents of deaf babies and children understand?
The answer was already given by Tami Hossler, who is one of the DBC core members and also a hearing parent. She explains the reasoning for posting this presentation. I find this interesting and I respectfully disagree with her. It is okay to disagree, because I have my own opinion and experience working with so many parents and I know that these parents appreciate a direct, fact-based and approachable information.
Other commenters who chimed in and expressed their opinions on my blog and most of what it was written are very similar to what I was thinking.
Amy Cohen Efron
October 30th, 2008 at 5:43 pm
Amy -
Yes, I had read your # 62 before I decided to make my comment/questions at # 68.
I see about your concern. I also see why it made you wonder whether hearing parents would understand at first impression.
However, my point here, your responses have not been in direct, i.e. have you talked with the person(s) who made that transcription? and have you made any findings why those information are being used, for example, 9/11 that you might have found it out of concept or respect?
That is all I wanted to know. Just simple, direct answer would be great. Thank you again for your time to respond to my questions.
Kathryn
October 30th, 2008 at 6:12 pm
Kathryn,
I am asking DBC because this presentation was released to both the Deaf Community and the public, which I am a member of.
The Deaf Community and the public has the right to question an organization about it’s actions that will have an impact on all of us.
So my question to DBC, again, as a member of a member of the Deaf Community to the organization, is whether they think this presentation is helpful for hearing parents of deaf babies and children to understand the situation about bilingualism.
Again, this is not about individuals. This is about whether the organization’s action truly are in the best interest of the Deaf Community and the public’s.
Thank you.
Amy
October 30th, 2008 at 6:17 pm
Everyone,
I think it’s time to wrap up comments now.
Thank you for visiting my blog and leaving comments here.
It has been a very productive dialog about this issue.
Amy Cohen Efron